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A career as a train driver

blackfrost

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2014
Messages
46
Evening all!

I currently work as a Conductor and applied for a Trainee Driver and Train Shunter Driver. I've been invited to assessments centres for both positions. The shunter assessment day would be before the trainee driver one which I probably might end up sitting at the beginning of next year when I can be released from duties. What I'm concerned about is if I fail the Shunter Driver assessment does that count towards 1 fail of taking the train driver assessment?

I've done a bit of research on being a Shunter Driver or depot driver and understand it involves driving trains at very slow speeds so I imagine both assessments are fairly similar? Has anybody done both?

Also as I'm trying to prepare for the Trainee Driver assessment has anybody found the How2Become a Train Driver or taken private assessments with DB Schenker useful?
 
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GMT

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2015
Messages
292
Location
Kent
Evening all!

What I'm concerned about is if I fail the Shunter Driver assessment does that count towards 1 fail of taking the train driver assessment?

I have the strong feeling that yes, it would count. But there's always a chance that I may be wrong. I have trawled this forum for some time now and from what I have gathered the assessments should be the same. As a matter of fact, apparently the training is the same, too, except for the fact that trainees shunter don't learn the routes, obviously.

I suppose now you have to choose which one to sit :|

I wouldn't take any private assessment (waste of money IMHO). I passed the one for trainee driver a couple of months ago (and I'm not a genius) and I would say mainly practise the Group Bourdon available on this site (I used to practise them during my breaks at work). Perhaps you may want to print some sheets out and use the pen, because that is the way is carried out at the assessment centre.

And good luck :)
 

blackfrost

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2014
Messages
46
Thanks GMT! I ended up contacting the recruitment team and the person I spoke to was very honest and helpful which helped me weigh up my options and consider which is best. If you fail a Shunter Driver assessment it does indeed count as one fail in a Trainee Driver assessment (for GTR that is), so I ended up withdrawing my application for the Shunter job. I'm more for the Trainee Driver tbh.

As for the private train driver assessments I contacted DB about this and it does seem like a rip-off. Basically you'll pay all that money, but it seems how well you do at each stage dictates whether you progress in the assessment. If this info is accurate, imagine you pay I think it's £450 you fail on the concentration test or whatever is usually the first stage and that's it bye-bye! Or can anybody confirm if this isn't the case? I took my chances and bought that how2be a train driver stuff which was £40 and has some useful software imo
 

GMT

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2015
Messages
292
Location
Kent
If you fail a Shunter Driver assessment it does indeed count as one fail in a Trainee Driver assessment (for GTR that is), so I ended up withdrawing my application for the Shunter job. I'm more for the Trainee Driver tbh.

If you do the assessment with GTR (in Croydon) be prepared to a full day over there. You start at 9ish with Group Bourdon and finish at 17 with situational judgement test. Browse the forum and look for MMI posts, as you will be asked to answer the six questions on that day. The MMI interview will take place on a different day, after the driver managers one.

The material they send you is very helpful. Follow it fully and thoroughly.
 

blackfrost

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2014
Messages
46
If you do the assessment with GTR (in Croydon) be prepared to a full day over there. You start at 9ish with Group Bourdon and finish at 17 with situational judgement test. Browse the forum and look for MMI posts, as you will be asked to answer the six questions on that day. The MMI interview will take place on a different day, after the driver managers one.

The material they send you is very helpful. Follow it fully and thoroughly.


Yeah I've heard from a few of my colleagues how long it is. I feel more prepared for how long it will take than the actual tests themselves!
What order are the tests usually done with GTR then?
 

GMT

Member
Joined
29 Aug 2015
Messages
292
Location
Kent
What order are the tests usually done with GTR then?

More or less same as the order followed in the material sent (or to be sent) to you, paper tests always first of course. Obviously for a few the day may be shorter, as once the paper tests are done there is a break and those who fail are sent home after a brief 121 feedback. The Driver Fault Finding Test (DFFT) is carried out after the first break.

Remember that during the tests people are not allowed to leave the room, so if you need the gents go before the tests begin. ;)
 

mkrt1972

New Member
Joined
5 Aug 2014
Messages
1
Many thanks

The assessment day that DB Cargo offer can be a useful resource for prospective train drivers.
The certificate of competency that is issued, if successful, is not an accepted pass for the TOC I work for and is unlikely to be for others.
 

vintagegt

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2017
Messages
115
Guys,

I would have posted this in the group bourdon thread but it's closed from what I can see.

Just a quick one...when you guys discuss group bourdon and doing it 'on paper' does that entail putting a line through, a cross over or circling your intended answers?

May seem like a small detail but when time is of the essence, it may be a factor, albeit a small one.

Thank you.
 

KT530

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
186
Guys,

I would have posted this in the group bourdon thread but it's closed from what I can see.

Just a quick one...when you guys discuss group bourdon and doing it 'on paper' does that entail putting a line through, a cross over or circling your intended answers?

May seem like a small detail but when time is of the essence, it may be a factor, albeit a small one.

Thank you.

Diagonal line from bottom left to top right
 

JonnyH

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
69
I suppose that depends on how good your application is. If you have previously made it through the initial sift and failed at one of the stages, the application must be a good one. Therefore, if you have the tests to add to your application it could be a positive thing. I have a good friend who did just that; he went and sat the tests privately, passed, applied again and has been a mainline driver for a couple of years now. It wont work out for everyone but it can work.
 

JonnyH

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
69
I don't understand why anyone would spend near on £400 for pretty much nothing?

People need to remember; just because you have passed the assessments, doesn't mean you will get passed the paper-sift. When I applied for a trainee position with Northern 600 people also applied for the same placement - times that by 12 traineeships that Northern were recruiting for at the time and you get my point.

It's a big gamble spending that kind of money.
I suppose that depends on how good your application is. If you have previously made it through the initial sift and failed at one of the stages, the application must be a good one. Therefore, if you have the tests to add to your application it could be a positive thing. I have a good friend who did just that; he went and sat the tests privately, passed, applied again and has been a mainline driver for a couple of years now. It wont work out for everyone but it can work.
 

Dudly

New Member
Joined
4 Feb 2017
Messages
2
Hi Guys

Does anyone know if a traffic infringement like a red light hashed area stops you from becoming a trainee train driver with MTR?
 

sw1ller

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2013
Messages
1,567
Hi Guys



Does anyone know if a traffic infringement like a red light hashed area stops you from becoming a trainee train driver with MTR?



Not at the toc I'm at. However it's not MTR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

JonnyH

Member
Joined
1 Feb 2017
Messages
69
The assessment day that DB Cargo offer can be a useful resource for prospective train drivers.
The certificate of competency that is issued, if successful, is not an accepted pass for the TOC I work for and is unlikely to be for others.
Which TOC do you work for mkrt1972?
 

greatkingrat

Established Member
Joined
20 Jan 2011
Messages
3,289
Hi Guys

Does anyone know if a traffic infringement like a red light hashed area stops you from becoming a trainee train driver with MTR?

If you received a fixed penalty notice, that should be OK. If you went to court and were convicted of an offence, that may show up on the CRB check depending on how long ago it was.
 

dazzayid

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2014
Messages
90
Got an interview this week, absolutely dreading it. Hate interviews. Failed last interview for some reason. Hopefully get through this time. Just need to think of better answers to questions
 

KourosLloyd

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
20
Hi All

Great thread, been well worth catching up on it all over the last few days! I have an assessment days in Croydon at the end of March, anyone else there at that time?

May sound like a bit of a silly question but on a scale of 1 - 10, just how hard is it to get through the assessment day? I realise it's going to be tough, I'm currently playing bopit every day and practising the material sent through and picking out my best suit but debating whether to do the how2become day course or not, just to cover all angles (Think I'm starting to do my partners head in with the amount I'm going on about it) I just have this vision of me being dragged out after the first round. As for the interview, my plan is to focus on solution finding and working as a team / on my own.

Thanks in advance!
 

Marco007

New Member
Joined
28 Jan 2016
Messages
1
Location
Delft (Netherlands)
Heres an account of a recent recruitment journey from a newly appointed driver who wishes to remain anonymous:

First Stage – Application Form – This is all done on the internet. It starts off asking all the obvious stuff, name, address etc. It then asks for education and qualifications. Then it asks a series of competency based questions.

After the application stage you will get sent a complete pack of information on what tests you will be undertaking and what is involved. This pack is excellent and although slightly different to the actual tests will give you some idea of what to expect on the day.

Second Stage – Assessment Day 1 –

The first test undertaken was the Group Bourdon (or Dots Test). There is a good program on this forum here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79923 that you can use to practice these. It was a paper and pencil test. Do a few on the computer and print some off and do them with a pencil, it feels a lot different to the computer test.

The second test undertaken was the TEA-Occ test. This consisted of 3 parts. The first part was listening to an audio CD where you have to count the low tones ignoring the higher pitched tones. The second part involved searching a piece of paper, which looked similar to a telephone directory, for matching symbols. The third part was a combination of the first 2, searching for matching pairs of symbols while counting low tones from the CD.

The third test undertaken was the TRP test. This consisted of 2 parts. The first part was listening to instructions being read out, while also reading the same instructions on paper. You have to study the information (you can make notes too) and answer questions based on the information you have heard and read. The written information and your notes are collected before you answer the questions. The second part is the ‘Dials and cables’ test. There are dials; each dial has an arrow indicator on it which is positioned on one of 4 different shaded segments. You have to decide which order the dials are checked in depending on where each arrow is. Make sure you listen to the instructions carefully.

That was it for Day 1! All the tests were paper and pencil/pen tests. After each test they marked everything and people that hadn’t got the required score were sent home.

Second Stage – Assessment Day 2 –

These tests were all the computer based tests.

Before the computer tests, we were asked to fill in a form that would be used in the MMI later in the afternoon. They asked for examples of competency based questions.

After filling in the MMI form we proceeded straight to the computer tests. The first test undertaken was the WAFV vigilance test. This consisted of staring at a white computer screen, where a light grey box would flash up in the middle at a consistent speed. Randomly it would change to a dark grey square; you have to press a green button on a special keyboard as quickly as possible. This carried on for 30mins! To help practice the WAFV Vigilance test download an app called Vigilance Test (by hsapps.com) from the play store.

The second test was the ATAVT perception test. This consisted of images of traffic scenes that were flashed up on screen for 1 second. After the image had gone you have to indicate which of the 5 objects listed (pedestrian, motor vehicle, bikes/motorbikes, road signs and traffic lights) you saw in that image.

The third test was the 2Hand Co-ordination test. You have to move a ball around a shape on the screen using a special keyboard with 2 joysticks. The right hand one only moved the ball up and down and the left hand one only moved the ball left and right. You have to trace the same shape 10 times.

After these 3 computer tests they marked everything and people that hadn’t got the required score were sent home again. After this it was straight on to the MMI.

The MMI was a formal and structured interview where you are asked to go into more detail about each example given earlier. It lasted just under an hour.

Third Stage – DMI – This was a formal and structured interview with 2 driver managers. This interview lasted just over an hour and although it was structured and formal it was also far more relaxed than the MMI.

Final Stage – Medical – This consisted of standard stuff: Hearing test, height, weight, urine sample for drugs screening, breathalyser, ECG, eye sight, colour-blindness, questions about an medication and finally a chat with the Doctor who also went through flexibility test and grip strength.

For all of the tests and interviews wear a suit and tie. Make sure you pay attention to any instructions given while carrying out the tests. Assume you are being assessed all the time, even before and after the tests are actually taking place.

MMI is the Multi Modal Interview and is the structured interview consisting of 6 questions that make up part of the Stage 2 assessments.

Hi there,

Since a while I'm thinking to move abroad.
This is because the Netherlands is not very large and thereby work for freight trains is very limited.

Now the UK interests me to apply there as a train driver.
Now I've done some research by reading this topic and most of what is posted, it is known to me as the familiar tests I need to do before I could ride independently in The Netherlands.

Some of the tests are the same as the tests I did in the past when I was studying for traindriver.

Now I saw that Freightliner UK had has several vacancies on their website for machinist at Limited and Heavy Haul.

Now I have still some questions about becoming a train driver in the UK. Because there are some tests I don't know.

I am qualified since 2014 as goods driver with all the necessary certificates. I am also in possession of a valid medical and psychological report which meets European requirements. These are valid until 2018 (M) and 2019 (P)
Gives me an edge when I apply?

I have no experience with the English legislation, but the basic experience with riding freight trains.

The Group Bourdon test is new for me and really, really hard as I watch a instructional video on Youtube.

Then I read about the TRP-test. Is that a listening comprehension test?

Above I quotet some other member who talking about the MMI.
Now I know al lot about becoming a traindriver in The Netherlands and Germany, but what's a MMI? I know it's the Multi Modal Interview, but that's the only thing I know. Is the MMI the same as the STAR-method? Of am I totally wrong at this point?

Some of the computertests are the same as the tests we use in The Netherlands. When I was tested in 2014 I also did the WAFV Viligance test.

Does anybody an exampke about the 3rd test? (2 hand coordination test)

I hope you can help me! :D
 

dazzayid

Member
Joined
18 Oct 2014
Messages
90
Also, does anyone know how many you can get wrong on the group bourdon test before you're out? Thanks!

Don't get any wrong is the best answer, take your time and don't rush. If you race through you will make mistakes and will be out the door before u start.
 

KourosLloyd

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
20
Don't get any wrong is the best answer, take your time and don't rush. If you race through you will make mistakes and will be out the door before u start.

Thanks mate appreciate that and for getting back to me too. Do you know how many lines completed correctly is regarded as a pass / good at all? Thanks again
 
Joined
11 Dec 2016
Messages
58
Also, does anyone know how many you can get wrong on the group bourdon test before you're out? Thanks!

I honestly believe that no one knows the answer to this.

I have recently been offered a job as a trainee driver, so have been successful at all the stages.

My advice re the Group Bourdon is to practice at home... which I suspect you are already doing, the way I did it was to time myself doing it two different ways, the first way was to look at the individual boxes and scan for the groups of 4 , crossing them as I went , the second way was to literally count each dot in each individual box and say in my head how many i could see , 3, 5 3, 4 etc etc after doing a few test runs I would check how many lines I had completed and how many errors I had.
What I found was that the first way was quicker... I could complete probably 2 more lines , but ... I had more errors. For me the second way was the more accurate. And this was the method that I used on the day.

Looking around the room , the people who's papers I could see whilst being collected , most had completed more lines than me .
I was the only candidate that progressed after lunch, obviously I have no way of knowing at what stage they had failed.

This is only my feeling, so please don't take it that I know anymore than anyone else... but I suspect that accuracy is of primary importance ,( They do state that accuracy and speed are of equal importance tho ) obviously there is no point in only completing 2 lines , but also if you complete 22 lines but 18 lines have errors that would also not be good. I made it my goal to be accurate over speed, with practice I managed to improve on both. I cant remember how many lines I completed .

I was amazed that some people on the assessment day had not been working through the practice material that we all were sent , I pushed my date back a week , to give myself more time to study .

I also believe that peoples brains are wired differently , and for some it is easier to complete the tasks than for others, nothing to do with intelligence , just the way we are . Fortunately for me, I have a very logical , methodical way of thinking.
The most important thing is tho, get a good nights sleep before , and leave yourself plenty of time to get to the test centre, one person was late so was not allowed to participate , and one person was only just in time, so was under pressure before they started .

I actually quite enjoyed the day !

Good luck .
 

KourosLloyd

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2017
Messages
20
I honestly believe that no one knows the answer to this.

I have recently been offered a job as a trainee driver, so have been successful at all the stages.

My advice re the Group Bourdon is to practice at home... which I suspect you are already doing, the way I did it was to time myself doing it two different ways, the first way was to look at the individual boxes and scan for the groups of 4 , crossing them as I went , the second way was to literally count each dot in each individual box and say in my head how many i could see , 3, 5 3, 4 etc etc after doing a few test runs I would check how many lines I had completed and how many errors I had.
What I found was that the first way was quicker... I could complete probably 2 more lines , but ... I had more errors. For me the second way was the more accurate. And this was the method that I used on the day.

Looking around the room , the people who's papers I could see whilst being collected , most had completed more lines than me .
I was the only candidate that progressed after lunch, obviously I have no way of knowing at what stage they had failed.

This is only my feeling, so please don't take it that I know anymore than anyone else... but I suspect that accuracy is of primary importance ,( They do state that accuracy and speed are of equal importance tho ) obviously there is no point in only completing 2 lines , but also if you complete 22 lines but 18 lines have errors that would also not be good. I made it my goal to be accurate over speed, with practice I managed to improve on both. I cant remember how many lines I completed .

I was amazed that some people on the assessment day had not been working through the practice material that we all were sent , I pushed my date back a week , to give myself more time to study .

I also believe that peoples brains are wired differently , and for some it is easier to complete the tasks than for others, nothing to do with intelligence , just the way we are . Fortunately for me, I have a very logical , methodical way of thinking.
The most important thing is tho, get a good nights sleep before , and leave yourself plenty of time to get to the test centre, one person was late so was not allowed to participate , and one person was only just in time, so was under pressure before they started .

I actually quite enjoyed the day !

Good luck .

This is genuinely so helpful thank you so much and congratulations on being offered the position! Do you have to wait long until you start? Out of curiosity. is the bourdon test meant to be the hardest? What test did you find the most difficult? Of course everyone is different but just trying to gauge just how hard it all is! I'm doing the practice material every night and debating whether to do the 'how2' day too. If I fail then I don't want it to be due to lack of preparation or anything! Thanks again, really appreciate it!
 

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