A better use for old PSB's?

[Alistair G.]

I was considering the other day whether we could be making better use of our railway heritage rather than just simply tear down and destroy everything.

I am going to use rugby PSB as an example however I'm sure a lot of recently/soon to be closed PSB's could have a similar plan out to them.

Rugby PSB over looked the WCML, lots of mixed traffic goes through rugby and it is often a good place for spotters to enjoy a day out.

So would it be an idea to have kept the building and sold "day passes" for spotters to go and enjoy somewhere to over the look the railway and watch the world go by whilst enjoying a nice seat out of the elements and general public. It has the plumbing and kitchen facilities already built in so that could have been easily adapted into a small cafe and perhaps monitors installed to show a live CCF similar to the one at the NRM in York?

I understand this wouldn't been fully used everyday. So on other days why not open them up to schools so that kids can actually learn about the railways whilst being next to them and seeing them libel too many kids learn about the dangers of the railways by just a boring PowerPoint in a school assembly, and perhaps don't really get what a 125mph train looks like!.

It could be a chance for them to see first hand the dangers of the railways and still have a presentation on other areas of the railways.

All just a thought, but it would be a shame to tear down our heritage when we could perhaps be utilising it in different ways!.

 

[GB]

Nice idea, but with insurance and building upkeep, I'm not sure selling a few passes would cover the costs.

 

[83G/84D]

St Austell signalbox has stood in an incresing state of dis-repair since it closed over 35 years ago, a few people / groups have expressed an interest in using it but nothing has ever happened. Ditto for the now demolished Dawlish signalbox.

Perhaps the complexities of agreeing a lease / maintenance programme with Network Rail are a barrier?

 

[yorksrob]

They do an excellent job of this with the Crewe heritage centre (although they have some other goodies to interest the rail enthusiast as well !).
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St Austell signalbox has stood in an incresing state of dis-repair since it closed over 35 years ago, a few people / groups have expressed an interest in using it but nothing has ever happened.

It's about time the up side buildings and footbridge were seriously restored as well. It's shocking they've been neglected so much.

 

[John Webb]

The biggest problem is safe public access to allow the public in as and when the preserved box is open. If the box is only accessible by crossing NR's track(s), then there is no way NR will agree to lease the box for obvious safety reasons.
Second problem is persuading NR not to included a 'claw-back' clause allowing them to cancel the lease at six months notice, as this will stop any potential source of funds for restoration handing such funds over!

At St Albans South, we were fortunate in that a siding had ran in front of the box, separating us sufficiently from the nearest running line to allow the erection of a fence with room to access the front of the box. But it took us some three years to persuade NR to drop the 'claw-back' clause before we could sign a sensible lease with them.

We also had the grounds surrounding the box already fenced off from the NR carpark and giving us access completely independent of the adjacent station, so we were in a quite advantageous position to restore the box and open it regularly to the public. Indeed in January this year we had our 10,000th visitor since September 2008, an average of around 1,900 a year - nearly four times the 500 a year the initial assessment on restoring the box said we'd need to be viable.

 

[fgwrich]

St Austell signalbox has stood in an incresing state of dis-repair since it closed over 35 years ago, a few people / groups have expressed an interest in using it but nothing has ever happened. Ditto for the now demolished Dawlish signalbox.

Perhaps the complexities of agreeing a lease / maintenance programme with Network Rail are a barrier?

The next one due for demolition as well will be South Brent's Signal box. Several offers for community use have been put forward but nothing has happened.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

http://www.risboroughbox.org.uk/

Worth a read if you are interested in this sort of thing. It's about Princes Risborough North Signal Box, which is a lovely old building. The preserved railway down the road at Chinnor are looking after it, they has somehow managed to negotiate access to it while trains are running to carry out maintenance on it too, as recently as in the past few weeks.
There are posters up at the station at the moment which are either publicising their cause or campaigning to raise money for it, I've seen them but not been able to get close enough to read what they say.


Also it might be worth mentioning that Stourbridge Junction box is being converted into a mess room for the train crew based there. It handed control of it's signals over to the West Midlands Signalling Centre about 18 months ago.

 

[John Webb]

West Hampstead PSB, which took over from St Albans South and other boxes in 1979, will be replaced by the EMCC at Derby in the next year or two. But it is being retained, like Stourbridge Junction, as a staff facility but for S&T personnel, I have been told.

 

[Yew]

My canoe club once considered using the Lincoln signal box for storage, however the leasing costs where prohibitive just for storing boats in

 

[DarloRich]

I was considering the other day whether we could be making better use of our railway heritage rather than just simply tear down and destroy everything.

I am going to use rugby PSB as an example however I'm sure a lot of recently/soon to be closed PSB's could have a similar plan out to them.

Rugby PSB over looked the WCML, lots of mixed traffic goes through rugby and it is often a good place for spotters to enjoy a day out.

So would it be an idea to have kept the building and sold "day passes" for spotters to go and enjoy somewhere to over the look the railway and watch the world go by whilst enjoying a nice seat out of the elements and general public. It has the plumbing and kitchen facilities already built in so that could have been easily adapted into a small cafe and perhaps monitors installed to show a live CCF similar to the one at the NRM in York?

I understand this wouldn't been fully used everyday. So on other days why not open them up to schools so that kids can actually learn about the railways whilst being next to them and seeing them libel too many kids learn about the dangers of the railways by just a boring PowerPoint in a school assembly, and perhaps don't really get what a 125mph train looks like!.

It could be a chance for them to see first hand the dangers of the railways and still have a presentation on other areas of the railways.

All just a thought, but it would be a shame to tear down our heritage when we could perhaps be utilising it in different ways!.

Just a few issues of the top of my head that might scupper this idea:

1) Lease terms
2) Access
3) On going maintenance liability
4) Obtaining funding for such a venture
5) Chance of repaying funding/earning a commercial return on investment
6) Very limited interest form the general public
7) lack of funds to meet day to day costs
8) Accessibility regulations
9) Access to line side for maintenance works

sorry i am out :roll:
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West Hampstead PSB, which took over from St Albans South and other boxes in 1979, will be replaced by the EMCC at Derby in the next year or two. But it is being retained, like Stourbridge Junction, as a staff facility but for S&T personnel, I have been told.

I understand Bletchley is being converted for railway office space

 

[Bald Rick]

West Hampstead PSB, which took over from St Albans South and other boxes in 1979, will be replaced by the EMCC at Derby in the next year or two. But it is being retained, like Stourbridge Junction, as a staff facility but for S&T personnel, I have been told.

West Hampstead loses a small part of its area to Three Bridges ROC next year. The rest isn't planned to go until resignalling in the 2020s.

 

[DownSouth]

So would it be an idea to have kept the building and sold "day passes" for spotters to go and enjoy somewhere to over the look the railway and watch the world go by whilst enjoying a nice seat out of the elements and general public.

Supply vs demand.

Why would a spotter with time to do that (i.e. probably unemployed, part-time employed or retired and therefore not with a high amount of disposable income) bother paying for that when they could go to bridges or streets alongside the line for free?

 

[GB]

Supply vs demand.

Why would a spotter with time to do that (i.e. probably unemployed, part-time employed or retired and therefore not with a high amount of disposable income) bother paying for that when they could go to bridges or streets alongside the line for free?

Thats quite an assumption. (My bold)

 

[rdeez]

Be interesting to see what happens to Birmingham PSB when that becomes redundant. It's quite a substantial building, and the location might make demolition tricky.

Edit: Aha, didn't realise it's a listed building! Looks like it's staying...but as what?

 

[The Planner]

The signallers only use the top floor, some offices which it will probably continue as.

 

[Alistair G.]

This was just an idea meant to kick start other possible uses for them, not rip the poor guys head off for a suggestion!.

I just thought it would be good to utilise them and if possible for something railway related.

I know i would prefer somewhere warm and comfy to spot rather than at the end of a platform in the current climate, but then I'm not 'hardcore'!

Still, the main point was, there has to be better alternatives than just ripping our railway down, look how much we regret beeching now, in another 30 year period I'm sure we will all be talking about how only a handful of signal boxes is a bad idea and how we should have kept some old boxes incase we ever needed to go back to them!

 

[lincolnshire]

This was just an idea meant to kick start other possible uses for them, not rip the poor guys head off for a suggestion!.

Still, the main point was, there has to be better alternatives than just ripping our railway down, look how much we regret beeching now, in another 30 year period I'm sure we will all be talking about how only a handful of signal boxes is a bad idea and how we should have kept some old boxes incase we ever needed to go back to them!

Keeping the old buildings is not good for the image as everything is IMAGE these days and Network Rail is one that only wants to portray an Image of efficency reguardless of cost especially if the tax payer is footing the bill.

What would the railway have been like if B. R. had been given the same amount of money as Network Rail are now getting?

 

[The Planner]

I see the modus operandi has come out, BR Good, everything else bad. Who would be funding the upkeep of these old buildings? thats right, tax payer funded NR.....

 

[Monty]

There are quite a few of the older PSBs and more conventional signal boxes that are still used for accommodation and office space. Clapham B box and Surbiton are two examples. Can the anyone tell me what the Box at Richmond is used for for now? I see people in there on a regular basis but I can't make out any signaling equipment, I had always assumed LUL used it as office space.

 

[Greenback]

1) Lease terms
2) Access
3) On going maintenance liability
4) Obtaining funding for such a venture
5) Chance of repaying funding/earning a commercial return on investment
6) Very limited interest form the general public
7) lack of funds to meet day to day costs
8) Accessibility regulations
9) Access to line side for maintenance works

Rigth, so I've got £400k ready to invest in this scheme, I hope this will be enough to refurbish the signalbox, pay for modifications to the access, get public liability insurance, install some furniture and to pay a few staff to check passes and look after it for a few months.

How many enthusiasts would be ibnterested in using my brand new facility, and how much should I charge them per day/week/month to make money?

(This isn't directed at you DarloRich, despite quoting you - but you put the points in that I was going to)

It's a complete non starter as I see it.

 

[dcsprior]

Here is a former signal box converted to self-catering holiday accomodation

 

[Bald Rick]

There are quite a few of the older PSBs and more conventional signal boxes that are still used for accommodation and office space. Clapham B box and Surbiton are two examples. Can the anyone tell me what the Box at Richmond is used for for now? I see people in there on a regular basis but I can't make out any signaling equipment, I had always assumed LUL used it as office space.

Richmond box is used as, err, a signal box. Controls the NLL to just beyond Gunnersbury Jn.

 

[balne-wonderer]

The idea is great, it would be great for us spotters.

simply on the grounds of safety though it can never happen

 

[CockneySparrow]

My canoe club once considered using the Lincoln signal box for storage, however the leasing costs where prohibitive just for storing boats in

Is that the disused box next to the university?
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The idea is great, it would be great for us spotters.

simply on the grounds of safety though it can never happen

It will also get trashed

 

[D1009]

http://www.risboroughbox.org.uk/

Worth a read if you are interested in this sort of thing. It's about Princes Risborough North Signal Box, which is a lovely old building. The preserved railway down the road at Chinnor are looking after it, they has somehow managed to negotiate access to it while trains are running to carry out maintenance on it too, as recently as in the past few weeks.
There are posters up at the station at the moment which are either publicising their cause or campaigning to raise money for it, I've seen them but not been able to get close enough to read what they say.

I was on the "Chiltern Champion" rail tour on Saturday which passed that box 4 times, so that explains every time we passed it there were people in orange PPE leaning out of it!

 

[CockneySparrow]

Rigth, so I've got £400k ready to invest in this scheme, I hope this will be enough to refurbish the signalbox, pay for modifications to the access, get public liability insurance, install some furniture and to pay a few staff to check passes and look after it for a few months.

How many enthusiasts would be ibnterested in using my brand new facility, and how much should I charge them per day/week/month to make money?

(This isn't directed at you DarloRich, despite quoting you - but you put the points in that I was going to)

It's a complete non starter as I see it.

Say you charge £1.20 per person one day you would need 1000 customers a day everyday for one year to get your money back

If you charged a fiver that will be 250 customers everyday, now even if you did get that consistently I doubt there would be that much room for everyone

Its a total non starter
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Does anyone know when the boxes on the Breckland Line are due for demolision