A 150 question ive been meaning to ask for a long time.

[co-tr-paul]

Simply ; is there anywhere a 150 can not go ?
Love them or hate them you have to admit they have done their job.
Yes I know some interiors have been bad but some have also been very comfortable !
Yeah OK, not same as 1st class part of a 101 but hey ; times change....

 

[fgwrich]

Given how long it took for 150231 to be cleared for Basingstoke / Woking / Alton I would say there is still parts of the South East. Though it’s more likely that they’ve had little reason to head through this area and simply not gauge cleared (considering their 455 cousins have ran around most of the south since the 1980s).

 

[driver9000]

Off the top of my head they aren't cleared for much of the Merseyrail network and they are also barred from Maryport to Carlisle.

 

[GoneSouth]

Off the top of my head they aren't cleared for much of the Merseyrail network and they are also barred from Maryport to Carlisle.

Any idea why they are barred from Maryport to Carlisle ?

Thanks

 

[The exile]

I should imagine that outside of the former NSE area there are very few lines where it’s only lack of paperwork that means they’re not cleared. A combination of the widespread launch tour in the mid 80s and the NR yellow unit will have seen to that!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Any idea why they are barred from Maryport to Carlisle ?

Thanks

I believe there's a section on that line that a train can fit through on it's own, but if two trains were to be going the opposite direction at the same time they would be too close (with the 156s being slightly thinner than the 150s so they're fine)

 

[norbitonflyer]

Given how long it took for 150231 to be cleared for Basingstoke / Woking / Alton I would say there is still parts of the South East. Though it’s more likely that they’ve had little reason to head through this area and simply not gauge cleared (considering their 455 cousins have ran around most of the south since the 1980s).

Indeed, I understand it had to go via worcester because it was banned from the MML south of Bedford

 

[87015]

Indeed, I understand it had to go via worcester because it was banned from the MML south of Bedford

They spent years doing Bedford-Bletchley, Bletchley-Euston and the WLL though

 

[Strathclyder]

I was gonna cite the West Highland & Girvan - Stranraer as being totally bereft of 150 visits, but then remembered that 150001 made at least two visits in January and February 1986 (first visit was to Oban on 3rd January to mark the opening of the then-new station building there, the second time was on 17th February on a Glasgow - Fort William run; inbetween it spent 6 weeks working out of Inverness depot on regular duties to Aberdeen, Kyle & Wick) and a pair of Haymarket-based 150/2s (255 & 259) visited Stranraer on August 2nd 1987 on a excursion from Edinburgh for that year's Galloway Games.

Of course, none of these lines were intended/planned for 150 operations in the long term and were the exception rather than the norm, so special clearance was granted.

ScotRail's examples also appeared on Shotts workings into Glasgow Central on occasion before they went south, but whenever they did they were almost always sent straight back East as the Glasgow-based crews (specifically Corkerhill) didn't have traction knowledge.

150259 Glasgow Central

150259 stabled at Glasgow Central on 27/06/01.

www.flickr.com

 

[norbitonflyer]

They spent years doing Bedford-Bletchley, Bletchley-Euston and the WLL though

I don't recall them south of Bletchley or on the WLL, although they did work the Goblin for many years.

As far as I recall, the WLL was worked, in the days of the Kenny Belle, by (usually) a 33+TC, and after electrification of the line (for access to the Eurostar depot at North Pole) initially by a 455. 117s took over when the service was extended to Willesden Junction in 1994, as the wires only reached as far as North Pole depot, but they were later extended to Willesden and 313s took over.

 

[The exile]

I don't recall them south of Bletchley or on the WLL, although they did work the Goblin for many years.

They therefore presumably worked Willesden - Bletchley pretty frequently ecs.

 

[sad1e]

Indeed, I understand it had to go via worcester because it was banned from the MML south of Bedford

They've definitely been down the MML south of Bedford, I've seen photos of 150001 on test in pre Eurostar St pancras.

 

[CR165022]

I don't recall them south of Bletchley or on the WLL, although they did work the Goblin for many years.

They don't do it in service obviously but the GWR ones go south down the WCML from Wolverton to Wembley before then heading up the GWML from Acton.

 

[furnessvale]

I believe there's a section on that line that a train can fit through on it's own, but if two trains were to be going the opposite direction at the same time they would be too close (with the 156s being slightly thinner than the 150s so they're fine)

Assuming they haven't since singled the line in the many years since I was last there, the 6ft space through the bridge at Bullgill is tighter than gauge.

It was 4' 8" when I measured it.

 

[Sprinter107]

I don't recall them south of Bletchley or on the WLL, although they did work the Goblin for many years.

As far as I recall, the WLL was worked, in the days of the Kenny Belle, by (usually) a 33+TC, and after electrification of the line (for access to the Eurostar depot at North Pole) initially by a 455. 117s took over when the service was extended to Willesden Junction in 1994, as the wires only reached as far as North Pole depot, but they were later extended to Willesden and 313s took over.

150s have worked into Euston when the juice has been turned off. Ive travelled into Euston more than once in them, Tyseley sets though rather than Bletchley ones.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If we’re including freight line then presumably a 150 couldn’t travel on the Burry Port & Gwendraeth Valley Railway line.

 

[fgwrich]

I don't recall them south of Bletchley or on the WLL, although they did work the Goblin for many years.

As far as I recall, the WLL was worked, in the days of the Kenny Belle, by (usually) a 33+TC, and after electrification of the line (for access to the Eurostar depot at North Pole) initially by a 455. 117s took over when the service was extended to Willesden Junction in 1994, as the wires only reached as far as North Pole depot, but they were later extended to Willesden and 313s took over.

IIRC Class 150s have worked to Clapham on very rare occasions and I’m sure I’ve seen a photo there, though I can’t seem to find the photo now. Similar no doubt to the occasions when they worked into Euston - power issues?

If we’re including freight line then presumably a 150 couldn’t travel on the Burry Port & Gwendraeth Valley Railway line.

Better still, Island Line?

 

[62484GlenLyon]

They've definitely been down the MML south of Bedford, I've seen photos of 150001 on test in pre Eurostar St pancras.

150001 certainly visited St.Pancras on 16th January 1985.

 

[Wyrleybart]

IT is a bizarre British quirk isn't it. Apart from the traction under the floor, what is the difference between a class 150 and 455 ? Both have 20m bodyshells - maybe built in the same workshops (the 150/2s at any rate), but the 455s have shoe beams hanging off the bogies. I believe the snow plough and cab steps has caused issues with the class 153 and third rails, but do 150s have a similar problem - despite being 20m rasther than the class 153s 23m length.

 

[mlambeuk]

Durham coast, Tees Valley & Esk valley lines?.

 

[fgwrich]

IT is a bizarre British quirk isn't it. Apart from the traction under the floor, what is the difference between a class 150 and 455 ? Both have 20m bodyshells - maybe built in the same workshops (the 150/2s at any rate), but the 455s have shoe beams hanging off the bogies. I believe the snow plough and cab steps has caused issues with the class 153 and third rails, but do 150s have a similar problem - despite being 20m rasther than the class 153s 23m length.

I wouldn’t have thought the overall kinematic envelope would be that different either, both as you point out are 20m BR Mk3 Suburban Bodyshells. The 150 does have the exhaust stacks sticking up but not too much. The unpowered bogies are similar and both by BREL (BT13 on the unpowered 455 vehicles, BT38 on the unpowered Sprinter vehicles) with the difference being the larger BP27 motor bogies on the EMUs vs BP38 on the Sprinter.

I can only presume it comes down to what’s below the solebar on the 150 and the snow plough, as well as any necessities to actually clear them through areas outside of their normal operating region.

 

[The exile]

IT is a bizarre British quirk isn't it. Apart from the traction under the floor, what is the difference between a class 150 and 455 ? Both have 20m bodyshells - maybe built in the same workshops (the 150/2s at any rate), but the 455s have shoe beams hanging off the bogies. I believe the snow plough and cab steps has caused issues with the class 153 and third rails, but do 150s have a similar problem - despite being 20m rasther than the class 153s 23m length.

There is clearly no generic problem with 150s and third rail as there would have been frequent interaction at the southern end of various Wessex routes.

 

[Bikeman78]

Given how long it took for 150231 to be cleared for Basingstoke / Woking / Alton I would say there is still parts of the South East. Though it’s more likely that they’ve had little reason to head through this area and simply not gauge cleared (considering their 455 cousins have ran around most of the south since the 1980s).

One did make it as far as Woking on one of the bizarre Anglia Railways Colchester to Basingstoke services. It might even have been 150231.

 

[YorksLad12]

There is clearly no generic problem with 150s and third rail as there would have been frequent interaction at the southern end of various Wessex routes.

Let's be honest; the class 150 farewell railtour is going to be epic.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Let's be honest; the class 150 farewell railtour is going to be epic.

Penzance to Dundee via Weymouth, Great Yarmouth, Holyhead, Cleethorpes and Barrow.

Bring your own sleeping bags !!!

 

[EYFanatic]

Durham coast, Tees Valley & Esk valley lines?.

At least one 150 made it to Whitby because I saw it passing through Grosmont on a visit to the NYMR in the late 90s
Edit: I will try hunting for the picture

 

[mmh]

There is clearly no generic problem with 150s and third rail as there would have been frequent interaction at the southern end of various Wessex routes.

150s have been used to Portsmouth and Brighton, as noted in this thread from 2012: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/3-car-class-150-on-fgw-brighton-services-13-8.70079/

 

[sprinterguy]

Durham coast, Tees Valley & Esk valley lines?.

There's historically been restrictions around Boldon on 150s operating via the Durham Coast route, but it doesn't preclude them entirely as the 950 test unit has gone that way regularly over the years, and a Northern 150/1 was routed back south that way empty in March this year after having some work done at Heaton.

 

[FrontSideBus]

With the sheer ubiquitousness of class 150 and it's career, it's a wonder why nobody has presented one to a train manufacturer and just said "come up with a modern version of that"...

 

[GoneSouth]

With the sheer ubiquitousness of class 150 and it's career, it's a wonder why nobody has presented one to a train manufacturer and just said "come up with a modern version of that"...

I’ve thought this about many trains recently. We have perfectly good ride quality on lots of trains built in the 90s (16x, 17x, 180, and best of all 22x) yet we can’t seem to recreate it now with multiple manufacturers producing dubious quality products. If it worked then just do it again but tweak to make it better!

As for 150s, maybe make them a bit quieter and get rid of the rattly windows for air con, and of course 2+2 seating. But yes, essentially it works, just refine and there’s no need to start from scratch.

There you go, my over simplified amateur viewpoint!

To be fair, as a passenger I don’t really care about the power rating of the engine or what the traction equipment is, I just want to run smoothly over some pretty shoddy old track in places, be efficiently and have comfortable interior. The latter was not a strong point of the 150!

I’ve traveled on them from Penzance to Preston and York to Yetminster (not all in one trip obviously) and they have been real work horses. Was always pleased to see one turn up instead of a bench seat on the 142/143. I just think they’re too noisy now and need a 170 style interior to make them great again.

Like them or not they’re here for another 10 years probably!