92s on WCML

[madmack37]

After posting a thread on another fourm about kestral soon got me thinking and was wondering 'Weres all the 92s gone' i use to see them regulary when i went trainspotting at carlisle on the tesco trains. i last saw one was in 2012 in db red during september & havent seen them since
so question is are 92s still working over the WCML or have they been allocated to diffrent routes, in storage or sent abroad i have seen some pictures of 92s in germany

mark

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

After posting a thread on another fourm about kestral soon got me thinking and was wondering 'Weres all the 92s gone' i use to see them regulary when i went trainspotting at carlisle on the tesco trains. i last saw one was in 2012 in db red during september & havent seen them since
so question is are 92s still working over the WCML or have they been allocated to diffrent routes, in storage or sent abroad i have seen some pictures of 92s in germany

mark

There's a line of them rusting away at Crewe International Depot, visible from the Chester line.
There are still some operational, but fewer than there were.
It maddens me to see class 66s wasting capacity on the WCML when there are class 92s lying idle.
They are due to test the new electrification Manchester-Golborne Jn in the summer.

 

[cj_1985]

There's a line of them rusting away at Crewe International Depot, visible from the Chester line.
There are still some operational, but fewer than there were.
It maddens me to see class 66s wasting capacity on the WCML when there are class 92s lying idle.
They are due to test the new electrification Manchester-Golborne Jn in the summer.

while its good to see some class 92s getting used... it maddens me to see DB export yet more UK assets for use with its far flung, subsidiaries

DB isn't a small company, with very few locos... its exactly the opposite... its a large group of companies with hundreds, maybe even thousands of locos across all its subsidiaries in every country... yet it always seems to be more locos from HERE that get shipped off for use in these newer subsidiaries that are in poorer countries.

I have said it before, DB only bought EWS to get access to the French rail market through ECR... the UK operation was just an "unwanted" extra. Just like GBRf was an "Unwanted" extra (that it, for a time, embraced) when First Group bought GB Railways to get back into the Greater Anglia/Great Eastern Franchise competition.

But DBS isn't the only one that guilty of using Diesel under the wires... Freightliner have class 86 and 90s that could be used more on services mainly under the wires, In theory DB have its 92s that could be used on trains from the Southern Region to destinations across the UK (on what was the EWS "enterprise" network), and GBRf (Through Europorte) have class 92s that could be used on portions of services under the wires.

But one of the key things that will enable DBS and GB to Justifying the use of an electric loco on long distance mainly "under the wires" jobs will be the promised expansion of the electrified network...
at the moment we don't have enough/any terminals and diversionary routes (not to mention cross country routes) electrified end to end or anywhere near end to end where these locos (or newer Vossloh or Bombardier electric locos) can really be best utilised. releasing class 66s to strengthen existing services, launch new routes, or expand into additional markets etc etc.

much as we may like to lay all the blame at the door of TOC or FOCs of wastefull diesel running "Under the wires"... NR, DfT and BR before them, are far more to blame for not having more of the network electrified by now

 

[Condor7]

They can still be seen on the WCML, I go quite regularly around Tebay area, and they are diagrammed for the 6S94 Dollands Moor-Irvine china clay tanks on a Wednesday, and the 4M63 Mossend-Hams Hall intermodal on a Friday.

I have notes of my sightings but am away for a day or two and don't have them with me, but may post more details Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[Boothby97]

They can still be seen on the WCML, I go quite regularly around Tebay area, and they are diagrammed for the 6S94 Dollands Moor-Irvine china clay tanks on a Wednesday, and the 4M63 Mossend-Hams Hall intermodal on a Friday.

Also 6L48 Garston-Dagenham and return 6X41 car carriers, which run on weekdays.
The Dollands Moor-Scunthorpe and return steel working, was a Class 92 (Dollands Moor-Doncaster) but due to the Hatfield landslide is currently worked by a Class 66 throughout, for now :roll:

 

[DarloRich]

I saw one tonight through MK hauling one royal mail unit northbound

 

[Boothby97]

I saw one tonight through MK hauling one royal mail unit northbound

92029+325014 5Z92 Wembley EFOC to Crewe IEMD
Thanks, Sam

 

[breadfan]

The line of stored electrics visible from the Crewe to Chester line are class 90s. Though 92003 was just about visible on Crewe Electric depot.

I also saw 92029 hauling 92042 through Crewe station and 92011 pottering around Warrington Arpley on my travels yesterday.

 

[33056]

Also 6L48 Garston-Dagenham and return 6X41 car carriers, which run on weekdays.

This is usually a class 90 though you do get the occasional 92 on it, sometimes DIT behind the 90.

 

[Boothby97]

This is usually a class 90 though you do get the occasional 92 on it, sometimes DIT behind the 90.

It can be a 90 or 92 (apologies). More recently, it has been more 90 hauled, look at the last week of May (w/c 27/05), 90035 worked the trains (0L48,6L48,6X41,0X41) at least Tuesday to Friday (28th-31st), and on 3rd June (the following Monday).
I have seen 90s more on this train now, although the first time I ever saw it was 3 Class 92s, although I've yet to see a Class 66 on it (I'll jinx it now)

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Other than what has been mentioned, the following is also Class 92 workings on the WCML only. Just a general idea, but the Wagonloads shown as Mossend-Warrington continue beyond with diesel haulage.

DB Schenker
Cargowagons
6B41 Wembley-Daventry and 6A42 return (weekdays)

Wagonload
6F25 Bescot-Warrington and 6G76 return (Tuesday & Thursday)
6O15/6V15 Mossend-Warrington and 6X65 return (Weekdays)
6M76 Mossend-Warrington (Monday & Wednesday) and 6X52 return (Tuesdays & Thursdays)

GBRf
Intermodal
4M90 Dollands Moor-Daventry and 4O93 return (Wednesday and Friday)

 

[Condor7]

Just been checking my records as promised in my above post, for around the Tebay area.

Obviously the 92's where used on the Tesco Expresses until the end of last year.
Since then I have only seen them on the Mossend - Hams Hall, and the Dollands Moor -Irvine. The only exception was on the 15th May this year when 92016 and 66132 where in tandem light engine at 11:50am

 

[causton]

92029+325014 5Z92 Wembley EFOC to Crewe IEMD
Thanks, Sam

What would the reason for this be? Is the class 325 broken or... is there something I'm missing?

 

[ash39]

I'm guessing here, but perhaps a lack of drivers that sign 325's. They haven't seen a load of use in the past few years.

 

[Bevan Price]

Just been checking my records as promised in my above post, for around the Tebay area.

Obviously the 92's where used on the Tesco Expresses until the end of last year.

DRS regained the Tesco contract from DBS (ex-EWS) at the last contract renewal.

 

[causton]

I'm guessing here, but perhaps a lack of drivers that sign 325's. They haven't seen a load of use in the past few years.

Sounds silly but I guess it makes sense!

 

[Boothby97]

When class 325s go for repair they are usually dragged

Edited 1810 13/06, see bold above (I put Class 92s)

 

[Dreadnought]

I'm guessing here, but perhaps a lack of drivers that sign 325's. They haven't seen a load of use in the past few years.

325s are in daily use between Willesden PDRC - Warrington RMT - Shieldmuir on mail trains.

They have even started running them on the ECML as well recently.

 

[33056]

I'm guessing here, but perhaps a lack of drivers that sign 325's. They haven't seen a load of use in the past few years.

325 definitely broken, there are enough drivers who sign them on the West Coast side to move one when needed including the chap who worked 5Z92

 

[RichmondCommu]

while its good to see some class 92s getting used... it maddens me to see DB export yet more UK assets for use with its far flung, subsidiaries

DB isn't a small company, with very few locos... its exactly the opposite... its a large group of companies with hundreds, maybe even thousands of locos across all its subsidiaries in every country... yet it always seems to be more locos from HERE that get shipped off for use in these newer subsidiaries that are in poorer countries.

You've answered your own question here. DBS here in the UK has fleet of modern loco's which are under used, so it makes perfect sense to export them to other countries who can make use of them and whose existing fleet is antiquated.

But DBS isn't the only one that guilty of using Diesel under the wires... Freightliner have class 86 and 90s that could be used more on services mainly under the wires, In theory DB have its 92s that could be used on trains from the Southern Region to destinations across the UK (on what was the EWS "enterprise" network), and GBRf (Through Europorte) have class 92s that could be used on portions of services under the wires.

I'm assuming that it’s much cost efficient to use one class of loco for an entire journey rather than change loco's half way. One of the criticisms of SNCF Fret is that a journey from the Spanish border to northern France will use three locos, all of them electric. This partially explains why SNCF Fret has lost so much business in recent years. Not only that but how many DBS services originate on the old Southern Region that are not already hauled Class 92's? And in all fairness the Enterprise nowadays barely exists as it was unable to make profit.

But one of the key things that will enable DBS and GB to Justifying the use of an electric loco on long distance mainly "under the wires" jobs will be the promised expansion of the electrified network...
at the moment we don't have enough/any terminals and diversionary routes (not to mention cross country routes) electrified end to end or anywhere near end to end where these locos (or newer Vossloh or Bombardier electric locos) can really be best utilised. releasing class 66s to strengthen existing services, launch new routes, or expand into additional markets etc etc.

I concur that much more of the network needs to be electrified. However I'm not so optimistic about new routes or additional markets coming on stream in the future. The significant problem being that the two major ports in this country are close to the South and the South East. Given that the majority of the population live in the South it’s not economical to run a train of containers from Felixstowe to Greater London. And that’s before we get on to Thamesport.

I agree that there is clearly demand for services from Southampton and Felixstowe to the Midlands / the North West and Scotland but sooner or later these will reach saturation point I'm sorry but there is little chance of taking much more freight off the motorway
.

 

[The Crab]

The majority of the population do not live in the south of England. Something like 40% live in that area but that includes places like Penzance which may further from ports such as Felixstowe than many places in the North.

 

[stevread1]

It can be a 90 or 92 (apologies). More recently, it has been more 90 hauled, look at the last week of May (w/c 27/05), 90035 worked the trains (0L48,6L48,6X41,0X41) at least Tuesday to Friday (28th-31st), and on 3rd June (the following Monday).
I have seen 90s more on this train now, although the first time I ever saw it was 3 Class 92s, although I've yet to see a Class 66 on it (I'll jinx it now)

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Other than what has been mentioned, the following is also Class 92 workings on the WCML only. Just a general idea, but the Wagonloads shown as Mossend-Warrington continue beyond with diesel haulage.

DB Schenker
Cargowagons
6B41 Wembley-Daventry and 6A42 return (weekdays)

Wagonload
6F25 Bescot-Warrington and 6G76 return (Tuesday & Thursday)
6O15/6V15 Mossend-Warrington and 6X65 return (Weekdays)
6M76 Mossend-Warrington (Monday & Wednesday) and 6X52 return (Tuesdays & Thursdays)

GBRf
Intermodal
4M90 Dollands Moor-Daventry and 4O93 return (Wednesday and Friday)

The loco 4M90 is usually stabled at Rugby during the day

 

[DarloRich]

I'm guessing here, but perhaps a lack of drivers that sign 325's. They haven't seen a load of use in the past few years.

eh? They seem to rustle up enough drivers for the daily trips between Willesden and Shieldmuir and return! They even rustle up drivers for an ECML run at present.

Those units get worked canny hard when you consider they tend to run in three unit trains. There will be 2x3 unit trains on the WCML and I assume the same on the ECML every day, that leaves one spare unit and one on maintenance.

 

[33056]

East Coast runs are both 1 x 4 car (two units) with the two West Coast ones (3 units each) that only makes 8 in use each day out of 15 (or 14 if you discount 325 009).