86101 + hull trains

[westcoaster]

Taken from http://www.wnxx.com

Hull Trains loco & stock diagram...
Further to yesterday's report regarding the use of 86101, a DRS 47 and stock on Hull Trains workings between London and Hull due to commence on Friday October 19th, for an initial period of six months, the following information (with times at Doncaster in brackets) has been supplied...

Friday
1A97 19:18 Hull-Kings X (Doncaster 20:10)

Saturday
1H03 09:34 Kings X -Hull (Doncaster 11:23), 1A94 13:05 Hull-Kings X (Doncaster 14:04), 1H06 17:05 Kings X-Hull (Doncaster 18:48)

Sunday
1A93 10:12 Hull-Kings X (Doncaster 11:04), 1H03 14:44 Kings X-Hull (Doncaster 16:25)

The trains are to be worked by First GBRf with Hull Trains on board staff. The shunting at Hull is to be undertaken by First GBRf.
86101 will work in push pull mode with the DVT between London and Doncaster and will remain with the set for the DRS Class 47 hauled leg out to Hull from Doncaster.
The set is scheduled to stable at Doncaster during the week with servicing being undertaken at Bounds Green overnight on the Friday.

excellent news if it is true.

 

[rail-britain]

Hull Trains are required to use a train capable of the existing timings
The options are limited, of either a Class 220, 221, 221 or similar, 110mph electric loco and 5 Mark 3 coaches

I'll check the ORR website to see if Hull Trains have submitted their proposal for this amendment to their Track Access Agreement

 

[37402]

Hull Trains are required to use a train capable of the existing timings
The options are limited, of either a Class 220, 221, 221 or similar, 110mph electric loco and 5 Mark 3 coaches

I'll check the ORR website to see if Hull Trains have submitted their proposal for this amendment to their Track Access Agreement

5 Mark 3 coaches will limit the speed to 100 IIRC.

Their Track Access Agreement should already include loco hauled trains after an incident involving an 86 hired from Anglia and loco hauled trains not being in the agreement. It was hastily added shortly afterwards...

 

[richa2002]

But it's not April 1st! . If this happens, should be great.

 

[rail-britain]

Their Track Access Agreement should already include loco hauled trains after an incident involving an 86 hired from Anglia and loco hauled trains not being in the agreement. It was hastily added shortly afterwards

Hull Trains current Tack Access agreement is for Class 222 units only
Their previous Track Access agreements for Class 170 units has now expired, and this allowed them permission of 100mph rolling stock
The current Track Access agreement has timing specifications in it, and providing they can meet these then there shouldn't be any problems, but finding a suitable alterntaive will be very difficult
The only option is a 110mph electric loco and five Mark 3 coaches or HST

A Class 87 or 90 can operate with up to nine Mark 3 coaches at up to 110mph
A Class 67 struggles to keep 110mph with more than five Mark 3 coaches

 

[Pathfinder]

Well hello everybody,Im back !!
This stock Hull trains are getting from DRS,how many charters do they have cos I've heard that GC have a DRS set for the next to weeks to finish off staff training before "going live".The set will be travelling s/land to york via the durham coast and back to s/land starting from tomorrow morning but apparently this time it has a brake van in the formation as this has a PA system to allow the staff to practise their "announcements" !!

 

[Tom]

The stock isn't from DRS - it's from Cargo-D. Totally different to DRS.

 

[rail-britain]

Well hello everybody,Im back !!
This stock Hull trains are getting from DRS,how many charters do they have cos I've heard that GC have a DRS set for the next to weeks to finish off staff training before "going live".The set will be travelling s/land to york via the durham coast and back to s/land starting from tomorrow morning but apparently this time it has a brake van in the formation as this has a PA system to allow the staff to practise their "announcements" !!

The ORR website shows that the final set of training runs are for a Class 37 only

 

[86242]

86/1s can do 110mph...

 

[matt]

86/1s can do 110mph...

Which is why 86101 was chosen

 

[86242]

also while on the subject any 86/2s which were fitted with high speed pantographs 86231/86247 to name a few IIRC about 10 were and they could all do 110mph

 

[thefab444]

What other 86s could they have used though?

 

[87015]

also while on the subject any 86/2s which were fitted with high speed pantographs 86231/86247 to name a few IIRC about 10 were and they could all do 110mph

86247 was and will always be a complete heap and struggled enough with 100mph!

 

[Pathfinder]

The stock isn't from DRS - it's from Cargo-D. Totally different to DRS.

My apologies tom,it appears I have been given duff info,whats this cargo d set like,is it MKIII ? :-?

 

[Tom]

The Cargo-D set is a MkIII set in BR Blue-grey livery.

 

[Pathfinder]

The Cargo-D set is a MkIII set in BR Blue-grey livery.

Cheers tom..aaah,the old BR livery,memories are flooding back to me now !

 

[Donny Dave]

And on the 28th October, I'm booked in coach D, seat 37A on the 1444 ex Kings Cross. I'm looking foward to the 86 and Cargo D stock

 

[richa2002]

Blimey, would have waited for confirmation if I was you.

 

[Donny Dave]

Well, I had to come back up from London one way or another. Besides, if the diagrams are swapped, I will get my first Pioneer for haulage

 

[richa2002]

Ah okay, fair enough, so you're not going especially for haulage?

 

[Donny Dave]

Nope, I'm going down very early Saturday morning for the Western Tour, and a Pioneer or 86 plus stock seems to be a better alternative to class 91s and mark 4 sets.

 

[rail-britain]

I'll check the ORR website to see if Hull Trains have submitted their proposal for this amendment to their Track Access Agreement

Looks like Hull Trains have got themselves in a reliability catch-22 situation
The reliability of their Class 222 DEMUs was so good they had applied for an additional path for weekdays only
This application has now appeared on the ORR website :
http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s22-Hull_Trains_18SA_apfrm.pdf
This will apply from next timetable change (December 2007)

However, with the loss of one Class 222 DEMU this may result in either the application being withdrawn or dropped, or if suitable rolling stock can be sourced a further amendment

 

[Max]

The proposed Supplemental Agreement is made in respect of;
• 1 additional contingent right between Hull and Kings Cross on weekdays only
• 1 additional contingent right to call at Stevenage in the up direction
• Continuation to the Capacity Charge Rate for the seventh train path
These additional rights will be used by Hull Trains to maintain the current service, approved in December 2006 between Hull and London Kings Cross.
The proposed sale of this right retains the total number of weekdays rights held by Hull Trains at 7. At the present time this represents the optimum number of services than can be operated within the existing rolling stock resource available to Hull Trains.

Looks like Hull Trains are actually having a bit of a reshuffle, giving up a path elsewhere to get this new path, rather than getting an additional service. The new northbound service provides a later last sevice to Hull (including ones requiring a change at Doncaster), later than the current 2027.

 

[rail-britain]

The finer detail in the SA also states they sold one of the current rights...

 

[Pathfinder]

The finer detail in the SA also states they sold one of the current rights...

GC's 4th path anyone ? (yes I know they have'nt started running yet,just a daft thought !)

 

[Max]

GC's 4th path anyone ? (yes I know they have'nt started running yet,just a daft thought !)

Wouldn't have thought so, since Hull Trains haven't actually lost a path overall...

 

[86242]

86247 was and will always be a complete heap and struggled enough with 100mph!

So was Howard of Effingham

 

[37402]

86247 was and will always be a complete heap and struggled enough with 100mph!

Weren't they all?

 

[rail-britain]

86101 should be on its way from Crewe to Doncaster tomorrow, having now completed a Crewe - Carlisle test run
However, to get from Crewe to Doncaster, it is routed via Edinburgh!
A short period of crew training should take place with 86101 entering passenger use, Monday to Friday, from 12 November for a period of 3 months

Hull Trains also have to pay for 86101 positioning moves for any charter use at weekends, ouch!
This will also see the loco run light between Doncaster and the WCML, via Edinburgh

 

[87015]

Hull Trains also have to pay for 86101 positioning moves for any charter use at weekends, ouch!
This will also see the loco run light between Doncaster and the WCML, via Edinburgh

Thought the HT use was to be at weekends though?
Good luck to the ACLG, I'm no 'can' fan but preserved traction on the mainline can't be looked down on whatever the class. Peter Can (259) also looks to be on its way back down at Tyseley so perhaps some of the various 'can characters' will be coming out of retirement!

So was Howard of Effingham

I've considered it, but i'll take Howard any day of the week thanks!! Had enough runs off 86247 and none of them were memorable enough for me not to have had to look the logs up. canjunk!