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802022, 20/11/2025

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Peter C

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Hi all,

Please do let me know if there's already an explanation for this on the forums. 802022 has been in platform four at Plymouth for quite a while and looking on OpenTrainTimes and RealtimeTrains shows it was supposed to be on 5C96 to Laira last night just after midnight, but it's still there. Does anyone know what's happened?

Thanks in advance.

-Peter :)
 
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VP185

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It failed last night on 1C96 just outside Plymouth, all engines shutdown. Arrived 219 minutes late!
 

800001

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Recovered today most likely back to Laira.

802015 + 802022 + 802008
 

Peter C

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It failed last night on 1C96 just outside Plymouth, all engines shutdown. Arrived 219 minutes late!
Oh blimey! Thanks for that. I assume passengers were let off at Plymouth station? Almost four hours late really doesn't sound like any sort of fun.

Recovered today most likely back to Laira.

802015 + 802022 + 802008
It's all still in the platform as of 17:53. I imagine it'll all go back to Laira but it's taken a very long time (not a dig at anyone - I imagine it's a pretty tricky problem!).


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Original post above from 17:54, 20/11/2025; new post below from 08:35, 21/11/2025:

The stock from Wednesday's 1C96 is still in platform four at Plymouth (as of 8:20, 21/11/2025). Commenters over on WNXX have said the train (802015 and 802022) left London with three working engines total, and then was held at Lipson Jn. on the other side of the city: https://www.wnxxforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=41199&hilit=802022&start=100

TheSprinterMeister on WNXX said:
There has for some time been a defect on the down line at Lipson Jn requiring a 5 mph ESR to be imposed (208A, 207A or 206B points?). I can only assume the defect got worse to the point where they couldn’t run trains over it until repairs were made. Train presumably stood at P14. If you loose 206B or 207A points it then becomes impossible to set a route from P65 towards Mount Gould / Laira but that would not stop the unit accessing Laira from Laira Jn. Possibly they blocked the whole lot once 1A50 had gone past.

That is the second time we have had a 5 mph ESR at Lipson Jn within a few months.

They were announcing this issue at Reading when I took over 1C94 there yesterday.

67018 on WNXX said:
From a good source 1C96 was down to 1 GU as others had run out of fuel. The 1 remaining GU could not move the train so another IET was sent to rescue it. Since then there had been further issues sorting out the failure(s)

TheSprinterMeister on WNXX said:
That sounds exactly the same as the version of events received here. It may well have been left in turnaround at Plymouth rather than auxed off and the remaining GU simply ran out of fuel before any further attempt was made to move it. The 1C96 driver would have been on rather long hours.

Clarence Yard on WNXX said:
When 1C96 failed outside Plymouth Station last night, it had come from London with only 3 working engines anyway (2 on 802015 and 1 on 802022).

TheSprinterMeister on WNXX said:
I understand it was held at Lipson Jn as the 5 mph ESR suddenly became a 0 mph ESR. The sets are still at Plymouth platform 4 apparently.

802008, which was brought round to try and rescue 802022+802015 yesterday, was taken off some time last night and isn't there now.


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Another edit, 9:29, 21/11/2025:

800035 has just taken 802022 out of Plymouth, I assume off to Laira. :)

-Peter
 
Last edited:

Annetts key

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Hitachi IET 80X Class Train Problems​

An anonymous report from a whistleblower on the inside of a railway company about the unsatisfactory reliability of this type of passenger train.

The IET 80X class trains operated by GWR are experiencing increased reliability problems. In the option of a member of staff, they consider them “not fit for purpose”.

There is already a list of known problems, including the severe cracking of the bolster plate to vehicle shell, failing door seals, defective toilets, flaking paintwork and seats that are both uncomfortable and also quickly wearing out.

But the biggest problem at the moment is with the diesel engines. These are known as generator units (GU for short). These generate the electricity used to power both the electric motors that drive the wheels and all on board electrical equipment when the train is operating outside of the lines that are electrified.

One of the problems with the GUs is the fuel pumps. GWR have over one hundred IET/80X vehicles going out each day with some isolated GUs/engines.

Here is an example of a recent concerning incident.

On Wednesday 19th November 2025, one train formed of two five car IET sets (802015 + 802022 according to the RealTimeTrains website) was used to form the 20:03 departure from London Paddington to Plymouth running under the train description (head) code of 1C96.

This train failed and became stranded at Lipson Junction about one mile from Plymouth station. The weather conditions were not very good at the time. It was after midnight so it was dark and cold. And snow was falling.

The train had been made available by Hitachi, who maintain these trains, to GWR, the train operator. However, only three of the fitted six Generator Units (GUs) were actually in a working condition. The remaining three having been isolated and therefore not available for use.

If the train was only going to be used on the electrified lines, this may have been acceptable. But this train would be travelling for over 150 miles using only it’s three working diesel engines (GUs) for power.

Clearly when you only have half the number of engines powering the train, the remaining engines must do double the work. The three working engines will consequently, burn through fuel more than they would normally.

This train suffered a failure of one of the GUs because one engine ran of of fuel. The driver contacted Hitachi control to advise that they were now running on only two GUs. During the call, it was implied to them that the set shouldn't have been sent to Plymouth. They had been monitoring the fuel levels due to concerns that it may run out of fuel.

The question is, why was the train was allowed to continue in service to Plymouth?

As the train continued on towards Plymouth, the remaining two GUs shut down and the train ground to a halt.

The GUs are the only substantial source of power outside of an electrified line area, so when there are no working GUs, you immediately lose all heating and air conditioning.

In cold snowy weather conditions that means that the passengers and crew will become cold.

A reduced level of lighting will continue operating on the battery supply for a time. But soon this will begin to fail. And the train will become dark. Some passengers can be unnerved by this.

As the power level remaining in the batteries falls, you also lose the ability to make public address announcements and the ability to make crew calls between the sets. Keep in mind that there is no corridor between the two five car sets. So the crew from the different sets can’t even meet up.

The driver also lost the ability to make GSM-R radio calls to the signaller or control due to lack of power. That includes not being able to make emergency calls.

With the Train Management System (TMS) shutting down due to the loss of power, the driver would be unlikely to receive any notification of passengers self evacuating from the train.

All this increases the stress on the train crew.

Fortunately the train failed in a location where it was possible to effect a quick recovery and this train wasn't too busy.

Eventually it arrived into Plymouth nearly four hours late (217 minutes) at 03:14.

Had this happened in a more remote location with a busier train the situation could have been far worse. There could have been serious problems.

The reporter says that they consider that this incident was entirely avoidable. That is because it was entirely predictable.

Previously the ASLEF union representatives had raised concerns repeatedly at meetings with GWR.

With the increasing problems with these trains, it was only a matter of time before a failure would occur.

The reporter fears that despite the likely response from GWR being that “lessons will be learned”, it will happen again.

The reporter feels that railway staff should not be put in these avoidable situations.

One of the GWR directors has said that we have prioritised keeping services running. That is understandable, the whole point of a passengers railway is to get them from A to B as advertised. But risking them being trapped in the middle of nowhere in the dark and the cold is not acceptable.

As more and more sets are being used in service with more GUs isolated, the risk of failure increases. The reporter says that according to Hitachi fitters (maintenance staff) the GUs are failing faster than they can be fixed. That is clearly unsustainable.

If GWR continue to try to run all services, we will run out of operational IETs.

In three weeks time GWR will no longer operate the remaining Castle class HST sets. Will there be enough 175 class units to replace them? The reporter does not think so.

GWR appears to already be in a crisis. They desperately need to do something to address that.

The reporter says that they appreciate their comments may be perceived as being negative, but it comes from the position of someone who believes in rail transport, wants it to thrive and takes pride in delivering a good service to passengers.

* Please note that I am unable to link to the source as this came to me via a message from a friend inside the railway industry.
 

Sir Felix Pole

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I would hope GWR are waving the contract at Hitachi and witholding the (extortionate) fees until matters improve. I've travelled quite a few times now between Paddington and Plymouth and v.v. on the wretched things - in my opinion they are too lightly built - rough-riding, rattling panels, cracking bogies. I can't see how they are going to last 29.5 yrs. and will surely have to be replaced well before then. Thankfully I wasn't one of the unfortunates on 1C96, but I have experienced miserably slow running with GU sets out between Newton Abbot and Plymouth, that would disgrace a steam locomotive.
 

800001

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I would hope GWR are waving the contract at Hitachi and witholding the (extortionate) fees until matters improve. I've travelled quite a few times now between Paddington and Plymouth and v.v. on the wretched things - in my opinion they are too lightly built - rough-riding, rattling panels, cracking bogies. I can't see how they are going to last 29.5 yrs. and will surely have to be replaced well before then. Thankfully I wasn't one of the unfortunates on 1C96, but I have experienced miserably slow running with GU sets out between Newton Abbot and Plymouth, that would disgrace a steam locomotive.
The bogies are not cracking.
As for the contract. There will be penalties from Hitachi to GWR daily, for each train not provided to the required spec, ie engine isolated etc.
 

Nym

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The bogies are not cracking.
As for the contract. There will be penalties from Hitachi to GWR daily, for each train not provided to the required spec, ie engine isolated etc.

For all those problems that can’t be classed as operator induced.

As ever with complex contracts, the only winners are the lawyers…
 

800001

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For all those problems that can’t be classed as operator induced.

As ever with complex contracts, the only winners are the lawyers…
Yes, the contract works both ways, penalties flying backwards and forwards.
 

Peter C

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Hitachi IET 80X Class Train Problems​

An anonymous report from a whistleblower on the inside of a railway company about the unsatisfactory reliability of this type of passenger train.

The IET 80X class trains operated by GWR are experiencing increased reliability problems. In the option of a member of staff, they consider them “not fit for purpose”.

There is already a list of known problems, including the severe cracking of the bolster plate to vehicle shell, failing door seals, defective toilets, flaking paintwork and seats that are both uncomfortable and also quickly wearing out.

But the biggest problem at the moment is with the diesel engines. These are known as generator units (GU for short). These generate the electricity used to power both the electric motors that drive the wheels and all on board electrical equipment when the train is operating outside of the lines that are electrified.

One of the problems with the GUs is the fuel pumps. GWR have over one hundred IET/80X vehicles going out each day with some isolated GUs/engines.

Here is an example of a recent concerning incident.

On Wednesday 19th November 2025, one train formed of two five car IET sets (802015 + 802022 according to the RealTimeTrains website) was used to form the 20:03 departure from London Paddington to Plymouth running under the train description (head) code of 1C96.

This train failed and became stranded at Lipson Junction about one mile from Plymouth station. The weather conditions were not very good at the time. It was after midnight so it was dark and cold. And snow was falling.

The train had been made available by Hitachi, who maintain these trains, to GWR, the train operator. However, only three of the fitted six Generator Units (GUs) were actually in a working condition. The remaining three having been isolated and therefore not available for use.

If the train was only going to be used on the electrified lines, this may have been acceptable. But this train would be travelling for over 150 miles using only it’s three working diesel engines (GUs) for power.

Clearly when you only have half the number of engines powering the train, the remaining engines must do double the work. The three working engines will consequently, burn through fuel more than they would normally.

This train suffered a failure of one of the GUs because one engine ran of of fuel. The driver contacted Hitachi control to advise that they were now running on only two GUs. During the call, it was implied to them that the set shouldn't have been sent to Plymouth. They had been monitoring the fuel levels due to concerns that it may run out of fuel.

The question is, why was the train was allowed to continue in service to Plymouth?

As the train continued on towards Plymouth, the remaining two GUs shut down and the train ground to a halt.

The GUs are the only substantial source of power outside of an electrified line area, so when there are no working GUs, you immediately lose all heating and air conditioning.

In cold snowy weather conditions that means that the passengers and crew will become cold.

A reduced level of lighting will continue operating on the battery supply for a time. But soon this will begin to fail. And the train will become dark. Some passengers can be unnerved by this.

As the power level remaining in the batteries falls, you also lose the ability to make public address announcements and the ability to make crew calls between the sets. Keep in mind that there is no corridor between the two five car sets. So the crew from the different sets can’t even meet up.

The driver also lost the ability to make GSM-R radio calls to the signaller or control due to lack of power. That includes not being able to make emergency calls.

With the Train Management System (TMS) shutting down due to the loss of power, the driver would be unlikely to receive any notification of passengers self evacuating from the train.

All this increases the stress on the train crew.

Fortunately the train failed in a location where it was possible to effect a quick recovery and this train wasn't too busy.

Eventually it arrived into Plymouth nearly four hours late (217 minutes) at 03:14.

Had this happened in a more remote location with a busier train the situation could have been far worse. There could have been serious problems.

The reporter says that they consider that this incident was entirely avoidable. That is because it was entirely predictable.

Previously the ASLEF union representatives had raised concerns repeatedly at meetings with GWR.

With the increasing problems with these trains, it was only a matter of time before a failure would occur.

The reporter fears that despite the likely response from GWR being that “lessons will be learned”, it will happen again.

The reporter feels that railway staff should not be put in these avoidable situations.

One of the GWR directors has said that we have prioritised keeping services running. That is understandable, the whole point of a passengers railway is to get them from A to B as advertised. But risking them being trapped in the middle of nowhere in the dark and the cold is not acceptable.

As more and more sets are being used in service with more GUs isolated, the risk of failure increases. The reporter says that according to Hitachi fitters (maintenance staff) the GUs are failing faster than they can be fixed. That is clearly unsustainable.

If GWR continue to try to run all services, we will run out of operational IETs.

In three weeks time GWR will no longer operate the remaining Castle class HST sets. Will there be enough 175 class units to replace them? The reporter does not think so.

GWR appears to already be in a crisis. They desperately need to do something to address that.

The reporter says that they appreciate their comments may be perceived as being negative, but it comes from the position of someone who believes in rail transport, wants it to thrive and takes pride in delivering a good service to passengers.

* Please note that I am unable to link to the source as this came to me via a message from a friend inside the railway industry.
Thank you @Annetts key for this as it does a good job of explaining what happened last Wednesday. I'm not technically-minded, but I am very confused about why a set with half its GUs out would be sent all the way to Plymouth, especially given the note about the fuel level being monitored in one of the GUs for fear it would run out (which it then did).

Did the passengers on 1C96 on Wednesday stay on the train for all that time until it got to Plymouth? It's a good thing the train failed whilst it was in/on the outskirts of the city.

I also wonder why it took so long for 802022 to be recovered back to Laira after it had been brought to Plymouth station? It was there for a long time and at least two different units were brought in to try and move it on two occasions. (I also note that 802015 was not taken away with 022 when they finally got it moving, but I'm not sure whether it'd already been moved or was still in the station.) Not a dig at the people involved as I'm sure it wasn't easy - just curious.

-Peter
 

irish_rail

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Thank you @Annetts key for this as it does a good job of explaining what happened last Wednesday. I'm not technically-minded, but I am very confused about why a set with half its GUs out would be sent all the way to Plymouth, especially given the note about the fuel level being monitored in one of the GUs for fear it would run out (which it then did).

Did the passengers on 1C96 on Wednesday stay on the train for all that time until it got to Plymouth? It's a good thing the train failed whilst it was in/on the outskirts of the city.

I also wonder why it took so long for 802022 to be recovered back to Laira after it had been brought to Plymouth station? It was there for a long time and at least two different units were brought in to try and move it on two occasions. (I also note that 802015 was not taken away with 022 when they finally got it moving, but I'm not sure whether it'd already been moved or was still in the station.) Not a dig at the people involved as I'm sure it wasn't easy - just curious.

-Peter
There where issues with the sets when coupled up together. I gather the TMS didn't much like being a 15 car.

One thing the anonymous poster neglected to point out is there was a 5mph emergency speed restriction at the time in the area close to Lipson Junction where the failure occurred. It was this that actually caused the failure to happen, as in normal circumstances it would be possible to free wheel down Hemerdon Bank and make Plymouth station on one engine easy. It was the slowing for the 5mph , on the upward gradient towards Mutley tunnel that led to 1C96 coming unstuck.
 

Annetts key

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There where issues with the sets when coupled up together. I gather the TMS didn't much like being a 15 car.

One thing the anonymous poster neglected to point out is there was a 5mph emergency speed restriction at the time in the area close to Lipson Junction where the failure occurred. It was this that actually caused the failure to happen, as in normal circumstances it would be possible to free wheel down Hemerdon Bank and make Plymouth station on one engine easy. It was the slowing for the 5mph , on the upward gradient towards Mutley tunnel that led to 1C96 coming unstuck.
Do you think it was reasonable to run this 5+5 formation from London to Plymouth with only three GUs that were operational?
 

Clarence Yard

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Yes, but the fuel range has to be reduced to 700 miles. 3 engines will do it (if they are in good order) but they will use more fuel, around 1.9L to 2.0L per engine mile is what I would expect.
 

800301

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Yes, but the fuel range has to be reduced to 700 miles. 3 engines will do it (if they are in good order) but they will use more fuel, around 1.9L to 2.0L per engine mile is what I would expect.

Just because it can do it doesn’t mean it should, allowing a set into service in that state on that journey was a mistake from the start, one of those sets would have only had 1 GU working if that had failed leaving no GU’s in that set then that 5 car has to be locked out use
 

Horizon22

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For all those problems that can’t be classed as operator induced.

As ever with complex contracts, the only winners are the lawyers…

Depends if GWR are "providing" Hitachi with the right units to the right depots at the end of the day. It's all a bit perverse during severe disruption and hence why GWR feel the need to short-form as much as they do, because they can get whacking great fines if they don't provide the right units, which is of course tricky when your depots are at other ends of the country. But that's how the contracts were written and whatever they are, they certainly aren't passenger friendly.
 

Annetts key

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Just because it can do it doesn’t mean it should, allowing a set into service in that state on that journey was a mistake from the start, one of those sets would have only had 1 GU working if that had failed leaving no GU’s in that set then that 5 car has to be locked out use
I agree.

And as to the point about the 5 MPH TSR (or ESR / EROS), even if that was not present, the train may have been brought to a stand due to any numbers of other reasons. A red signal due to a trespassing incident or a signalling failure for some possible examples.

The speed restriction was a contributory cause but the real root cause was a train that should not have entered service for use outside the OHL area IMHO.
 

irish_rail

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Do you think it was reasonable to run this 5+5 formation from London to Plymouth with only three GUs that were operational?
In my opinion no. I'd sooner a set swap occurred at Paddington for a "better" set. Trouble is turnarounds at Paddington nowadays are so incredibly short there is less scope to do an effective set swap.
 

Clarence Yard

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Depends if GWR are "providing" Hitachi with the right units to the right depots at the end of the day. It's all a bit perverse during severe disruption and hence why GWR feel the need to short-form as much as they do, because they can get whacking great fines if they don't provide the right units, which is of course tricky when your depots are at other ends of the country. But that's how the contracts were written and whatever they are, they certainly aren't passenger friendly.

GWR don’t get fined for not providing a set on time. They may not get the set after its maintenance window but they will still be paying the daily availability payments for the total contracted availability.

The contract hand over is built around the unit being able to complete its diagram. Engine failure is not a reason in itself to reject a set. If 3 engines are running on a ten car, 3 engines are running on a nine car and 2 engines running on a five car operating on it’s own, it can, in theory, complete its diagram.

The contract has a much lower guaranteed fuel range than GWR run to. This fuel range was lowered further when the contract was amended by the DfT to cater for provision of all bi-modes. The original contracted range meant that some units would have to refuelled during the day. The later lower limit guaranteed that most of them would need refuelling. To stick with those figures would have had a devastating effect on the then timetable.

GWR/FG ran fuel tests in early 2017 to see what the consumption was and to set their own limit. The results were that the (5 car) units were taking an average of around 1.2L a mile but if an engine died it would go up to 1.6L a mile. So the fuel limit was set to take into account that one engine was out. The assumption was that only 1450L of the 1550L tank capacity was utilised to achieve that mileage.

So, the contractual position on fuel range is difficult. Hence why I said above that assuming 2.0L (700 miles) for a 10 car unit on 3 engines or a 9 car unit on 2 engines may be a prudent move. Having far more electrified miles on GW than existed in 2017 should make it slightly easier for GWR to diagram accordingly, but it’s not a simple task, especially with STP.
 

Annetts key

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Alas, what you read about in this topic is again showing that we are making do rather than aiming for a high quality, high reliability railway service.

Note that I define high quality rather differently than the way that most companies use BS EN ISO 9001. I define high quality as consistently exceeding the standard service specifications that you have advertised to your customer(s).

The railway on the other hand looks to be struggling every day. To have a train with HALF of it's GUs defective and which may only just get to its destination before it experiences fuel starvation issues for a planned timetabled diagram is astonishing.

The current figures from the ORR for GWR are 64.9% punctuality rate (within one minute) and 81.5% within three minutes, with 78.7% being the three minutes moving annual average. For services cancelled, the rate is 3.98% and the moving annual average being 4.6%.

This means that GWR is ranked among the worst operators.

To misquote Scotty from Star Trek, "I think this IET contract was put together by monkeys".

Not that other parts of the railway (e.g. Network Rail) are much better, but that's off topic.

Back in late 1987 or early 1988 (I forget the exact date) BR telling me (and the others in the same S&T training facility) that their objective was to reduce the delays and cancellations so that 100% of trains ran on time now seems to have been in a different universe.
 

Peter C

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There where issues with the sets when coupled up together. I gather the TMS didn't much like being a 15 car.
Ah thanks for that. It certainly looked like there was some trouble with the coupling itself.

-Peter
 

Rich McLean

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Hitachi first need to re-calculate mileage for sets with GUs out as a starting point and then diagram them accordingly (even if it means part cancelling diagrams) and looking at Mothballing sets to remove GUs to add them to other sets to keep adequate GUs running, despite the penalty payments. It appears they are sending sets out (including 2 x 5 car sets with 3 GUs between them) and 9 cars running around with 2 GUs to avoid penalty payments.

Come on Hitachi, bite the bullet, mothball sets and free up enough GUs to have at least 3 running on a 9 car, and 2 running on a 5 car (coupled or not) as an absolute minimum.
 

Clarence Yard

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They are sending units out to avoid not receiving availability payments. Those payments are five figures a day, per set.

As I said above, the number of engines out is not a reason for accepting sets, if they can cope with the diagram. If GWR diagram the units to run more diesel miles than is contracted (which they do) that is their risk.

Removing engines to put on others may not give you the result you want. How do you know they are any good? It may be a totally wasted effort if those engines also fail in a few days time.

Hitachi need to increase their capacity to drop and deal with the engines and clean the fuel tanks. At the moment they are treading water in reducing the total number of affected engines and/or units.
 

Rich McLean

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They are sending units out to avoid not receiving availability payments. Those payments are five figures a day, per set.

As I said above, the number of engines out is not a reason for accepting sets, if they can cope with the diagram. If GWR diagram the units to run more diesel miles than is contracted (which they do) that is their risk.

Removing engines to put on others may not give you the result you want. How do you know they are any good? It may be a totally wasted effort if those engines also fail in a few days time.

Hitachi need to increase their capacity to drop and deal with the engines and clean the fuel tanks. At the moment they are treading water in reducing the total number of affected engines and/or units.

Thanks for the clarification.
 

Horizon22

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They are sending units out to avoid not receiving availability payments. Those payments are five figures a day, per set.

As I said above, the number of engines out is not a reason for accepting sets, if they can cope with the diagram. If GWR diagram the units to run more diesel miles than is contracted (which they do) that is their risk.

I understand the concept fine, but it is totally at odds with a live railway environment which is subject to disruption from time to time. Diagrams can and will need to change through the day if there wants to be any semblence of a passenger service. And with GWR's depots being far-flung it's very much tail wagging the dog due to the inflexibility of the arrangements. Good in theory, very hard to manage in reality.

Fleet management is obviously important, but it's much more extreme at GWR and the balance doesn't feel right.
 
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Benjwri

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Some pretty dire GU performance today. On the 1300 off Bristol, absolutely crawling along, staff spoofing and saying on minimum GUs and lost loads of time with extra stops being added.

According to the staff the 1123 off Weston was also canned at Bristol because of GU issues.
 

800301

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Some pretty dire GU performance today. On the 1300 off Bristol, absolutely crawling along, staff spoofing and saying on minimum GUs and lost loads of time with extra stops being added.

According to the staff the 1123 off Weston was also canned at Bristol because of GU issues.

This problem isn’t going to magically fix itself, it will be a problem well into the start of 2026, they are trying to keep the worst ones on Bristol/Cardiff work as that is better than sending them half way across the country on diesel but that isn’t always possible
 

voyagerdude220

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Today's 2U10 08:48 Exeter St David's to Cardiff Central terminated at Taunton due to a Train Fault- was it an IET?
 
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