802: coach e = coach 5?

[stephen rp]

Daughter's treating herself to first class TPE Coast to Coast. Realtimetrains has coach numbers while TPE has letters. Does 5=E? It looks like it from the picture on realtimetrains.

Is it consistent which end will be at "east" and "west"? If not, would station staff know at intermediate stations?

And one part of the TPE site says breakfast "options" while another hints that you could have everything on the menu...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think you can guarantee TPE units to be any particular way round, and I don't think RTT has ever explicitly indicated which way round a unit is. Passenger information displays should show this correctly though, and I think it is in the new open data so RTT could possibly provide it at some point?

For breakfast, it's one "big" item plus whatever random drinks/snacks they bring round.

 

[zwk500]

I don't think you can guarantee TPE units to be any particular way round, and I don't think RTT has ever explicitly indicated which way round a unit is. Passenger information displays should show this correctly though, and I think it is in the new open data so RTT could possibly provide it at some point?

For breakfast, it's one "big" item plus whatever random drinks/snacks they bring round.

AIUI RTT will generally have the unit orientated with 'forwards' to the left. You can see the unit flip round on XC trains reversing at Birmingham New Street or Gloucester. Also visible with trains that attach and detach as the units will be added to the appropriate end.

Obviously this relies on the input data being accurate and it can easily get confused in the event of disruption.

 

[AverageJoe]

TPE 802 coach E or 5 will always be first class.
They are easily identifiable from the side as they have the first few windows covered and it will have first class signage.

As regards what’s on offer, it seems Liverpool - Newcastle trains have better first class options than Liverpool - Hull trains.

 

[driver9000]

If you look at the pictogram used by RTT it indicates 1st class as being coach 1 or 5 ( blanked out windows where the galley is located) although it is coach E in reality presuming they are travelling on an 802. There is also a silver ring around the roof marker light above the windscreen which helps identify 1st class and the TPE app normally shows which round the train is running.

 

[KN94]

The TPE app has unit orientations on it, if you go to 'Live' (or something like that), find the station, and then find the train

 

[Spartacus]

What's in WTT doesn't accurately reflect which was the unit is for TPE. As said above, TPE's app usually does.

One little giveaway on the platform if someone can't see the sides is that on the 1st class end of a TPE 802 there's a little light grey box shaped line around the top marker light, there isn't on the standard class end.

 

[stephen rp]

Thanks for all the helpful advice.

You'd think rather than a silver grey ring round a light to indicate 1st class it would help to have a long yellow strip above the windows or a big "1' near the door.

 

[AverageJoe]

The silver border around the marker light is for hosts to be able to see where first is. It’s not really meant for passengers.

I didn’t mention it in my post because it’s not particularly obvious and by the time you can see it the train will be close enough that you will soon see the side of the train and the other identifying markers.

 

[Spartacus]

They do have an info panel by the door near cantrail level but it's not always obvious, and of course impossible to see from the end. The ring around the light's nothing official, just something I've noticed. It's akin to how some southern units had markings on the first class end (black triangle?), and the 185s have their yellow stripe on the coupler at the first class end.

 

[Peter749]

@stephen rp Why don't you suggest the Big 1 near the Door to TPE?

There are not many trains that still have the Yellow band above the First Class section

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2025 ==

The ring around the light's nothing official, just something I've noticed. It's akin to how some southern units had markings on the end, and the 185s have their yellow stripe on the coupler at the first class end.

Are you sure it is not official?

All the GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE units have something around the top headlight at the First Class end - the TPE sets had it before being "painted"

 

[Tom]

The data in the Gemini feed is not reliable enough on TPE to indicate an orientation. Some TOCs do their best to ensure correctness, but TPE do not.

 

[Spartacus]

@stephen rp Why don't you suggest the Big 1 near the Door to TPE?

There are not many trains that still have the Yellow band above the First Class section

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2025 ==


Are you sure it is not official?

All the GWR, LNER, Hull Trains and TPE units have something around the top headlight at the First Class end - the TPE sets had it before being "painted"

All I mean it's not an official way for passengers to be able to tell which end's which.

 

[800Travel]

The TPE app has unit orientations on it, if you go to 'Live' (or something like that), find the station, and then find the train

This is often helpful, but is sometimes wrong - so especially if you're in Coach E you have to prepare to dash to the other end of the train.

 

[Peter749]

This is often helpful, but is sometimes wrong - so especially if you're in Coach E you have to prepare to dash to the other end of the train.

Look at the Front of a TPE 185 or 802 - on the 185 the Coupling Box under the Cab is Yellow at the First Class end


On an 802 there is a Silver band around the Top Headlight to indicate the First Class End


Peter

 

[800Travel]

Look at the Front of a TPE 185 or 802 - on the 185 the Coupling Box under the Cab is Yellow at the First Class end
View attachment 192680

On an 802 there is a Silver band around the Top Headlight to indicate the First Class End
View attachment 192679

Peter

Yes but that relies on the train being visible. When the app works, it is very helpful for intermediate stations

 

[stephen rp]

The trip went well.

The seats are individually numbered, so to reserve a forward or rear facing seat, TPE must know which way round the unit is.

 

[Butts]

Glasgow to Liverpool 1204 Service.

Started off well bagged 3&4 to myself in E - let my 13 slide.

West Coast Festive Menu - had Turkey Meatballs okay but at 410 calories compared to the TPE Breakfast at 680 not substantial.

Only three drinks runs on a 4 hour journey.

Was hoping to try the Festive West Coast Cheeseboard but no 2nd offering of food just snacks

Have had much better pro active service in TPE 1st Class in the past.

 

[318266]

For the WCML services, I tend to choose my seats with the presumption of 1st class being the Scotland end of the train, but this is very understandably not accurate as TPE do not give them a fixed orientation - evidenced by, for example, the Saturdays only 5S75 1956 from Edinburgh to Polmadie, which unlike the equivalent Avanti ECSs, do not reverse somewhere between Edinburgh and Glasgow to keep a standard orientation.

Orientation open data trends towards being more unreliable (you'd be hard-pressed to find any universally reliable orientation data anywhere short of tracking it manually yourself).

 

[Peter749]

Yes but that relies on the train being visible. When the app works, it is very helpful for intermediate stations

Most people can see the train before they board -

This is often helpful, but is sometimes wrong - so especially if you're in Coach E you have to prepare to dash to the other end of the train.

If the train is already in the platform it does not matter.