8 years left for Pacers?

[Rhondda Rudie]

They will have fallen apart by then, i'm not too worried, they was not bult to last anywhere near this long, in 7 years time they will be unable to run, they already caniballise demic ones as they are short of parts, they will not last til 2019.

Totally agree with this.I work 142s and 143s.To be fair to National Express when they ran our franchise they did spend a fair bit on upgrading the fleets but,let's be honest,these units were crap when they were brand new so,while improvements can be made,they are never going to provide a pleasant travel experience.Don't know about your units but in heavy rain it's wetter inside than out.

I remember my driver calling in a fault on the NRN once during heavy rain.The controller asked him what end of the train the fault was in (meaning the coach number) and the driver replied "The shallow end".

 

[WCML]

The Dft/government need to stop all of this faffing around with cascading old and inadequate units. Why has Northern become the scrapyard of the nation for rolling stock?

We need to scrap all of the Pacers and 150s as a minimum, but with the Pacers being the major priority. They are absolute pieces of crap.

If the money can be found for LM to have a whole new fleet of 172s, then the DfT need to start the hatchet work on Northern's fleet. Get rid of them ASAP, I really do feel sorry for regular Northern users, they shouldn't be subjected to 8 more years of Pacer torture, get them gone now!

 

[Nym]

Nowt wrong with the 142 I was on today, was more comfy than the 185 (thanks to it being formed with more interior standard class space)... 4 car 142...

 

[WatcherZero]

I was on a disgusting Sprinter at the weekend, im guessing it was a former London Midland unit from the internal colours (green) but the livery was a very old very faded Northern livery is it possible they just removed LM vinyls exposing an older Northern livery underneath? first or second Northern Livery... Perhaps its just been cascaded from the other side of the Pennines.

 

[sprinterguy]

I was on a disgusting Sprinter at the weekend, im guessing it was a former London Midland unit from the internal colours (green) but the livery was a very old very faded Northern livery is it possible they just removed LM vinyls exposing an older Northern livery underneath? first or second Northern Livery...

It can't have been, as all the former LM 150s were long term residents in the West Midlands since the early nineties. I think they were given a pretty thorough rub down during their refresh when they were repainted into the Central green/blue livery they currently wear, but even if they weren't then the only livery that removal of the top coat might reveal would be the remnants of the older Centro green/blue/white livery.

 

[142094]

Could have been an ex-Northern Spirit/ATN Sprinter which are green inside?

 

[Nym]

Gonna say, the ATN ones are green inside, the ex LM ones are brown IIRC, I remember being overcome by brown and off cream in 150214

 

[WatcherZero]

Supports and hand rests were definetley dark green (not lime green or ATW greenish blue) and livery was I believe second Northern livery with the Northern logo on white, whole livery very faded. Im finding it hard to get images of the internal liveries for comparison.

 

[D2022]

I am very confused as to why the Pacer family doesn't meet the disability requirements due in 2019 and would like to know why they don't meet them and what COULD be done to make them fit.

 

[transmanche]

I am very confused as to why the Pacer family doesn't meet the disability requirements due in 2019 and would like to know why they don't meet them and what COULD be done to make them fit.

The door step, door open buttons and toilet are three things which spring to mind that might not meet the accessibility regulations.

 

[ainsworth74]

The door step, door open buttons and toilet are three things which spring to mind that might not meet the accessibility regulations.

No might about those three things do not meet accessibility requirements. There are also issues with the destination displays and width of the aisle between seats.

 

[D2022]

No might about those three things do not meet accessibility requirements. There are also issues with the destination displays and width of the aisle between seats.

Could those aspects not be altered to allow disabled access. I recall Door buttons and such being changed on units before, same with dest blinds etc

 

[transmanche]

Could those aspects not be altered to allow disabled access.

Almost anything can be done if you throw enough money at it.

But is it a worthwhile use of money, bearing in mind they'll be around 35 years old by the end of the decade? Far better to spend the cash on new units.

 

[Lrd]

Could those aspects not be altered to allow disabled access. I recall Door buttons and such being changed on units before, same with dest blinds etc

They can be changed more easily than other aspects can but you still have to alter everything else to make it usable past 2019.

 

[ainsworth74]

Could those aspects not be altered to allow disabled access. I recall Door buttons and such being changed on units before, same with dest blinds etc

Of course it probably wouldn't be too hard to change those things but they still need changing. However, dealing with things like the toilet, the step up/down and width of the aisle however...

 

[D2022]

I guess logically with other new units and then cascaded stock being available it would be a bit pointless to update something that suffers other issues in service. Its just a shame too see them go.

 

[krus_aragon]

Could those aspects not be altered to allow disabled access. I recall Door buttons and such being changed on units before, same with dest blinds etc

Arriva Wales' pacers have had suitable door buttons fitted. I believe they were all done by the previous TOC, Valley Lines. The other issues still remain.

 

[507 001]

Its just a shame too see them go.

:roll:If you say so!

 

[northwichcat]

The door step, door open buttons and toilet are three things which spring to mind that might not meet the accessibility regulations.

Even if the double step was eliminated and a DDA complaint toilet was put in the current toilet position it still wouldn't comply as a wheelchair user needs to be able to easily reach a DDA toilet.

If you did put a DDA toilet and adequate wheelchair space on a Pacer then the seated capacity would drop to something like the current 153 capacity.

 

[HSTEd]

Forget a DDA toilet, just lock out and probably remove the current one.

No toilet, no problem.

Or they could just be used only formed up with other units like a DDA rebuilt 158 or a 170.

 

[northwichcat]

No toilet, no problem.

Are you proposing to build station toilets at Hope Valley stations instead then?

No toilets are a problem on infrequent rural services. However, they could be cascaded to services with frequent services instead. Would you like pairs of toiletless Pacers replacing 172s on the Snow Hill lines?

Or they could just be used only formed up with other units like a DDA rebuilt 158 or a 170.

Apparently that's a no-go solution without corridor connectors.

 

[HSTEd]

Are you proposing to build station toilets at Hope Valley stations instead then?

No toilets are a problem on infrequent rural services. However, they could be cascaded to services with frequent services instead. Would you like pairs of toiletless Pacers replacing 172s on the Snow Hill lines?

I would rather that all non Turbostars were scrapped remember :P

But we have a privatised railway which only has one goal: make as much money as possible.

If they can get away with sending out toiletless pacers into revenue service they willl do so.

 

[Tremzinho]

Out of curiosity, could Pacers be kept on after 2019 if they were only used to strengthen services, and attached to DDA compliant 150s?
While I am no fan of Pacers, like most people I would rather be on 142 instead of beng left behind on the platform.
If they were only used at peak times, would it not be easier to stretch a few more years out of them, and give some breathing room for more electrification to take place?

 

[northwichcat]

Out of curiosity, could Pacers be kept on after 2019 if they were only used to strengthen services, and attached to DDA compliant 150s?

My understanding is no as I posted above. Although I understand a fully complaint 150/1 could have a 150/2 with a non-complaint toilet permanently inserted in to it.

would it not be easier to stretch a few more years out of them, and give some breathing room for more electrification to take place?

They might not even last until 2019. The end of 2019 was set as the date because the life-expectancy of DMUs is 30 years without a life extension program and the 158s and 159s will be 30 years old by then.

 

[Tremzinho]

I'm sure you are right, some of them wont last another 7 years. However I can just picture the Daily Mail headlines now, when 4 carriage trains are split in half to cover for trains that have been banned from being used.
Then again, maybe not as it wouldn't affect anywhere that Daily Mail journos live!

 

[tbtc]

Almost anything can be done if you throw enough money at it

...something which people claiming that HSTs could last for fifty/ sixty years (plus) fail to appreciate

 

[Wolfie]

The toilet is another Pacer issue. It would need to be moved down to the end of the train due to the door positions and to allow wheelchair users to be positioned near the toilet. Now people point out frequent short 'metro' services don't need toilets, which is correct. However, they aren't currently used on frequent 'metro' services. To get around this the LO 172s have toilets installed and are swapped with the some of the 144s, which could then have their toilets removed and then that problem is solved.

London Overground is one of the best developments in public transport London in a long time, eg see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/26188.aspx

If you believe that Boris or any London mayor is going to give up modern trains for antiquated hen-coops on wheels that were fit for scrap the moment they came out of the factory then you are living in ga-ga land!

 

[BR Blue]

I have made a countdown clock showing the time left until dda kicks in.

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20200101T00&p0=1316&msg=DDA+2020%3A+End+of+the+road+for+Pacers

 

[northwichcat]

If you believe that Boris or any London mayor is going to give up modern trains for antiquated hen-coops on wheels that were fit for scrap the moment they came out of the factory then you are living in ga-ga land!

I don't believe that will happen. I'm just saying it's possibly one of the few viable options for keeping Pacers in services beyond 2019. If DfT don't like the idea then they always order brand new trains for the North of England, Wales and the South West.

 

[Yew]

Replace Pacers with Bombardier built trains? Do you really want to see this forum filled with people saying 'We want the Pacers back'?

Also, if we want them to be up and running by 2019/2020 then we better get Bombardier to start building them next week, or they'll be cutting things a bit fine.

Dont forget that no bombardier trains are really suitable pacer replacement..