8 Carriage Train On Atherton Line?

[Stonesourscotty]

Due to The Extremely Severe overcrowding in Manchester Due to the Rugby World Cup Final Gigs at The P4U Arena The Apollo and Manchester Christmas Markets a 8 Carriage Northern Rail service was seen? did this operate in service or was it ecs?

 

[175001]

I very much doubt it. Need a competent person in each unit, and Hag Fold can only accommodate 4 cars

 

[WatcherZero]

They dont always have someone on every car, e.g. when 3x pacer formation operates there isnt always staff on the middle unit. Doubtful it would have been in service as 8 as most platforms could only accomodate 4-6 max, I have in the past very rarely seen a three unit formation operate on the line with the rear unit locked out of use, assumed they were repositioning stock after a failure.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

I hardly doubt it was a Failure knowing what problems Northern had on the Saturday. The consist appeared to be 142+142+156+Couldn't id unit as we pulled out of Atherton as it hurtled through.

 

[gnolife]

I very much doubt it. Need a competent person in each unit, and Hag Fold can only accommodate 4 cars

Assuming that the train was in service, it could have been a service to Southport, which call at Swinton, Walkden, Atherton, Daisy Hill and Hindley between Salford Crescent and Wigan Wallgate, whereas a Kirkby train calls at all stations.

 

[ValleyLines142]

If you know what service it was, ask on the TOPS request thread and someone will inform you of what units formed it.

 

[185]

Scenario. It's 2001.

You've a 3 car 158, a 143 and a 142. All needed in service for York races.

1 guard, 1 driver.

Was it alright to agree to work it?

 

[driver9000]

I very much doubt it. Need a competent person in each unit, and Hag Fold can only accommodate 4 cars

No you don't. All that is required is the train to be worked from the rear.

 

[northwichcat]

I very much doubt it. Need a competent person in each unit, and Hag Fold can only accommodate 4 cars

Three points:

1. Northern one day operated a 156+150+142 formation with just a conductor on the Pacer and a driver on the 156 so they don't need one crew member per carriage even though ideally there would be. The rear unit was a Merseytravel Pacer so as you can imagine passengers were trying to avoid that unit like the plague.
2. The rear train can be locked out of use for part of the journey. This happens on Huddersfield-Victoria services where the rear unit is locked out of use at Huddersfield but is opened up later on.
3. Sometimes if there is a fault on the front unit meaning it can be used but not driven it's easier to attach another unit on to the front and lock the rear train out of use than to uncouple the faulty train and send it away and couple up a replacement unit.

 

[175001]

Hmmm...how strange that my conductor manager tells me we need a competent person in EACH unit?

Very strange indeed...

 

[185]

No you don't. All that is required is the train to be worked from the rear.

My point exactly. You could technically have a HST sandwiched between two 142s, as long as the guard remains in the rearmost set. :P

Hmmm...how strange that my conductor manager tells me we need a competent person in EACH unit?

Very strange indeed...

.

Occasionally, TOCs introduce their own company rules which apparently supersede the rule book, sectional appendix et all. FirstGroup are often up to this unsafe practice - at the end of the day, the rule book is the only standard we should all work to.

 

[northwichcat]

As Northern don't do DOO they have to cancel a service if no conductor is available. However, if there are 3 units joined up (without corridor connectors) and 1 conductor and 1 driver then they aren't required to cancel but they may need to make an exception to their usual practice to operate it.

 

[Tomnick]

Occasionally, TOCs introduce their own company rules which apparently supersede the rule book, sectional appendix et all. FirstGroup are often up to this unsafe practice - at the end of the day, the rule book is the only standard we should all work to.

Requiring a competent person in each unit is surely an additional, TOC specific, requirement to those of the Rule Book, rather than superceding anything...so seems OK in principle. Whether it works, and is adhered to, in practice...I don't know?

 

[driver9000]

As Northern don't do DOO they have to cancel a service if no conductor is available. However, if there are 3 units joined up (without corridor connectors) and 1 conductor and 1 driver then they aren't required to cancel but they may need to make an exception to their usual practice to operate it.

There is no exception to make. All that is required is for the guard to work the train from the rear. Certainly never heard of any requirement for a member of staff to be in each set of a passenger train longer than 2 sets without corridors.
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Requiring a competent person in each unit is surely an additional, TOC specific, requirement to those of the Rule Book, rather than superceding anything...so seems OK in principle. Whether it works, and is adhered to, in practice...I don't know?

You're right in saying that TOCs can implement working instructions stricter than the Rulebook but if they do it must be adhered to. A requirement to have a member of staff on every set in a train formed of more than 2 sets without corridors would be very impractical and unworkable (such as a 6 car booked for corridor stock and rostered 1 guard but turns up as non corridor stock).

 

[175001]

Well whatever the rule is, I will follow the words of my CTM.

 

[SeanG]

Very much dount Daisy Hill can accomadate 8 carriages

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You could technically have a HST sandwiched between two 142s, as long as the guard remains in the rearmost set. :P

I am still recovering from the shock of imagining such an arrangement....hock:

 

[northwichcat]

I am still recovering from the shock of imagining such an arrangement....hock:

Due to a short platform at Prestbury all Prestbury passengers had made to board the Pacer on the front and none were allowed access to the HST.