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720s at Stansted - why block half the doors?

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Bletchleyite

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Was at Stansted yesterday and I noticed that when a 720 was working the "StanEx" crowd barriers were placed across half the doors with signs "please use other doors" and arrows pointing to the London end of the platform. The doors were not locked and people seemed to be happily ignoring them. Why is this?
 
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Magdalia

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Was at Stansted yesterday and I noticed that when a 720 was working the "StanEx" crowd barriers were placed across half the doors with signs "please use other doors" and arrows pointing to the London end of the platform. The doors were not locked and people seemed to be happily ignoring them. Why is this?
I suspect that it is an attempt to even out the loadings through the length of the train.

Bear in mind that a pair of class 720s is not gangwayed between the units, and that the aisle between the seats is very narrow, insufficiently wide even for airline cabin baggage. Once airline passengers have got on a class 720 most are effectively trapped in the car that they boarded, but passengers used to class 745s will have an expectation of being able to move through the train after boarding.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Is this the same reason people are told to move forwards on the platform at Tottenham Hale for Stansted Airport? Presumably at Liverpool Street everyone just piles into the nearest carriages to the barrier?
 

Deepgreen

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It's one thing to encourage passengers to use other doors, but to block them seems excessive, and unhelpful to last-minute boarders. If they were blocked, how were people just ignoring them - did they move the barriers aside?
 

Bletchleyite

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It's one thing to encourage passengers to use other doors, but to block them seems excessive, and unhelpful to last-minute boarders. If they were blocked, how were people just ignoring them - did they move the barriers aside?

People either moved them or squashed into the gap between them and the doors (the latter particularly dangerous - unintended consequences?)
 

Benjwri

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This intrigues me as well. They were doing it on the 11pm train on Saturday, it was empty!
 

dk1

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Is this the same reason people are told to move forwards on the platform at Tottenham Hale for Stansted Airport? Presumably at Liverpool Street everyone just piles into the nearest carriages to the barrier?

Makes perfect sense mate at Tottenham Hale. I look at down Stansted Express services as I’m driving alongside from Bethnal Green and so many cram into the back 6 coaches when there is plenty of space in the front section of the 745. I can only assume they can’t be bothered to walk forward.
 

Bletchleyite

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Makes perfect sense mate at Tottenham Hale. I look at down Stansted Express services as I’m driving alongside from Bethnal Green and so many cram into the back 6 coaches when there is plenty of space in the front section of the 745. I can only assume they can’t be bothered to walk forward.

Certainly people can't be bothered to walk forward at Euston (front coach of a 12 is the best place to be) so it makes total sense that it's the same elsewhere!
 

dk1

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Certainly people can't be bothered to walk forward at Euston (front coach of a 12 is the best place to be) so it makes total sense that it's the same elsewhere!

Happens all the time on off-peak Intercity services from/to Norwich. We can check on cctv to see space and no matter how many announcements made or the guard telling them personally, they seem to prefer to stand in doorways for an hour or more :rolleyes: Commuters tend to spread out and are not shy about sitting next to others or getting them to shift any bags off seats.
 

Kite159

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Is this the same reason people are told to move forwards on the platform at Tottenham Hale for Stansted Airport? Presumably at Liverpool Street everyone just piles into the nearest carriages to the barrier?
The only issue at Tottenham Hale is that the part of the platform passengers are told to head to is out in the open as the canopy over covers the rear half of the platform. So if it's raining those passengers won't move away from the canopy to get wet.

But remember the first "Wisdom of the Norm" law, there is only ever one set of doors, they will queue to board at a door which is unloading passengers ignoring the next door along which has nobody waiting
 

dk1

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But remember the first "Wisdom of the Norm" law, there is only ever one set of doors, they will queue to board at a door which is unloading passengers ignoring the next door along which has nobody waiting

So true especially for non-commuters. Drives me nuts.
 

Horizon22

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Certainly people can't be bothered to walk forward at Euston (front coach of a 12 is the best place to be) so it makes total sense that it's the same elsewhere!

I think the same is true of any London terminals of anything longer than a 5 car! Long may it continue if I can get a fairly empty coach.
 

greataj

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This is exactly the kind of reason why 720s be refurbed to StanEx standards to overcome the shortage of 745s, as some posters suggest on other threads, is not a good idea! The distribution of passenger loads along these trains have to be carefully managed, and 2x 5-car 720's coupled together don't provide a gangway for passengers to move along the entire length once on-board. This obviously won't be fixed regardless of how you may fit out the interiors to make it more suitable for airport traffic. A pair of 720 would also be a capacity cut vs a 745 if reconfigured to a similar seating layout. That may not be such an issue now, but the 745's are futureproofed in terms of the capacity provided on the StanEx to accommodate the forecasted growth in airport traffic. Since there's no ability to add additional services to/from Stansted, due the single-tunnel approach and platform constraints, this needs to be protected.

I diverge slightly, so back on the original topic, the problem is at Liverpool St where passengers board on the nearest coaches to the ticket barriers (ie the back of the train), most oblivious to the fact when they get to Stansted, the front carriages are the optimal ones to be in (you get a few savvy customers who realise this, but most don't). Therefore at Tottenham Hale they have to direct people towards the front in order to prevent delays. The 720's only exacerbate this as the freedom to move along the train once in, is lost.

A 745 from Stansted is less of an issue, because unlike on the northbounds from London, there is no major boarding point en-route as most people in TOM are alighting. There's a bit of passenger churn through BIS/HWN but that's about it. If people board at the back in Stansted, the mid and front sections will naturally begin to fill at either BIS/HWN as people joining there can simply move along to available seats once on-board. A 720 however is a different story. Due to platform layouts in BIS and HWN, people will favour the mid-rear section and if that all gets filled in Stansted, they have no way to move toward to the empty front section once onboard. As the 720's are not the norm for StanEx services, you're unlikely to have staff in BIS/HWN managing crowd control like you do in TOM routinely. There's also simply not the same crowding there. As such, they have to ensure passengers are not filling the rear section in Stansted, so these seats are readily available for these other station calls.
 

AJDesiro

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This is exactly the kind of reason why 720s be refurbed to StanEx standards to overcome the shortage of 745s, as some posters suggest on other threads, is not a good idea! The distribution of passenger loads along these trains have to be carefully managed, and 2x 5-car 720's coupled together don't provide a gangway for passengers to move along the entire length once on-board. This obviously won't be fixed regardless of how you may fit out the interiors to make it more suitable for airport traffic. A pair of 720 would also be a capacity cut vs a 745 if reconfigured to a similar seating layout. That may not be such an issue now, but the 745's are futureproofed in terms of the capacity provided on the StanEx to accommodate the forecasted growth in airport traffic. Since there's no ability to add additional services to/from Stansted, due the single-tunnel approach and platform constraints, this needs to be protected.
I don't see how they'd be a capacity cut compared to a 745. The closest Aventra to the 745s interior-wise is the 730/2, and they manage to pack in 406 seats in a 2+2 configuration, with tables and armrests (and that's including the rather low-density end carriage with the declassified first class!), which would mean 812 seats when they work as a 10 car, as the StanEx 720s generally tend to, which is a 64 seat increase on a 745/1.

When it comes to passengers not going into the front unit, that's their fault really, the capacity is there.
 

dk1

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I don't see how they'd be a capacity cut compared to a 745. The closest Aventra to the 745s interior-wise is the 730/2, and they manage to pack in 406 seats in a 2+2 configuration, with tables and armrests (and that's including the rather low-density end carriage with the declassified first class!), which would mean 812 seats when they work as a 10 car, as the StanEx 720s generally tend to, which is a 64 seat increase on a 745/1.

When it comes to passengers not going into the front unit, that's their fault really, the capacity is there.

Might have been easier to convert some of the 720/1 10-car fleet to dedicated StanEx had the order not been changed at the last minute.
 

Adrian1980uk

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This is exactly the kind of reason why 720s be refurbed to StanEx standards to overcome the shortage of 745s, as some posters suggest on other threads, is not a good idea! The distribution of passenger loads along these trains have to be carefully managed, and 2x 5-car 720's coupled together don't provide a gangway for passengers to move along the entire length once on-board. This obviously won't be fixed regardless of how you may fit out the interiors to make it more suitable for airport traffic. A pair of 720 would also be a capacity cut vs a 745 if reconfigured to a similar seating layout. That may not be such an issue now, but the 745's are futureproofed in terms of the capacity provided on the StanEx to accommodate the forecasted growth in airport traffic. Since there's no ability to add additional services to/from Stansted, due the single-tunnel approach and platform constraints, this needs to be protected.

I diverge slightly, so back on the original topic, the problem is at Liverpool St where passengers board on the nearest coaches to the ticket barriers (ie the back of the train), most oblivious to the fact when they get to Stansted, the front carriages are the optimal ones to be in (you get a few savvy customers who realise this, but most don't). Therefore at Tottenham Hale they have to direct people towards the front in order to prevent delays. The 720's only exacerbate this as the freedom to move along the train once in, is lost.

A 745 from Stansted is less of an issue, because unlike on the northbounds from London, there is no major boarding point en-route as most people in TOM are alighting. There's a bit of passenger churn through BIS/HWN but that's about it. If people board at the back in Stansted, the mid and front sections will naturally begin to fill at either BIS/HWN as people joining there can simply move along to available seats once on-board. A 720 however is a different story. Due to platform layouts in BIS and HWN, people will favour the mid-rear section and if that all gets filled in Stansted, they have no way to move toward to the empty front section once onboard. As the 720's are not the norm for StanEx services, you're unlikely to have staff in BIS/HWN managing crowd control like you do in TOM routinely. There's also simply not the same crowding there. As such, they have to ensure passengers are not filling the rear section in Stansted, so these seats are readily available for these other station calls.
It's always going to be the best efforts of a bad job I'm afraid, 720s are unsuitable for Stansted in their current format but there's very little that can be done as fully using 745s on Stansted service means cancellations and timetable reductions on the Norwich side.

Managing Boarding a pair of 720s with luggage is always going to be a challenge as they're not designed currently for luggage.
 
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