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70 min flex tickets - only from LNER?

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fandroid

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Are there sites other than LNER which sell their 70min flex tickets?

eg can the Forum's site sell them if the correct buttons are pressed?

My travel, usually from London to places like Wakefield or Newcastle is somewhat unpredictable as to exact time, but needs to be as quick as possible once confirmed. I'd like to take advantage of Advance prices, say from 1 week ahead, but have price guaranteed and a modest amount of flexibility
 
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yorkie

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Are there sites other than LNER which sell their 70min flex tickets?
The DfT are keen to abolish (Super) Off Peak tickets, so other companies are introducing "Flex" type tickets, with a loss of refund rights and/or flexibility, but LNER are the only company specifically doing 70 min flex.
eg can the Forum's site sell them if the correct buttons are pressed?
Yes, for example if you want an expensive train, such as the 0701 Newcastle to London...

1769853460232.png
...you can choose any train +/- 70 mins that is significantly cheaper...
1769853564477.png
...then click "change ticket selection" and choose 70 min flex and, if available, purchase that instead:
1769853589687.png
(Screenshots above show the 0701 NCL-KG priced at £175.80; the 0758 at £110.19 and a 70-min flex for the 0758, which is valid on the 0701, for £157.90)

In order to be "simple", customers need to search for trains they don't want, to see if the Flex fare is cheaper than the less flexible fare for the train they actually want. This is currently a trial but is being deemed a success by the DfT and they want to roll it out across the country.

What we'd like to do with the forum site is to "pre-flex" the tickets, so that if you choose the 0701, we would automatically offer a 70 min flex ticket for the 0758, but I am not sure if the train companies will allow this, so it may not happen.

For now, you need to check the prices of all trains in a 140 min time window, to get the best price (this is considered more simple than buying a Super Off Peak ticket).

My travel, usually from London to places like Wakefield or Newcastle is somewhat unpredictable as to exact time, but needs to be as quick as possible once confirmed. I'd like to take advantage of Advance prices, say from 1 week ahead, but have price guaranteed and a modest amount of flexibility
The flex tickets may not be cheaper than on the day Advances, especially if splits are available; it's a way of locking people in and making them commit to paying a ticket which may not suit their needs. This is the very definition of "success" according to the DfT.

But yes, you can do this using the forum's site, and it will work with other operators when it's rolled out.

Some operators are being directed to replace their Off Peak tickets with semi flex tickets that allow travel all day rather than in 70 min timebands, the main differences being they are non-refundable, subject to surge pricing and may be quota controlled.
 

fandroid

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Thanks. I agree that it's almost unbelievably complicated, more so than buying split advances which is what I did last Wednesday. I might look at how advance prices change for sample journeys to see whether fixing ahead has any advantage over waiting until the day.
 

Hadders

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In order to be "simple", customers need to search for trains they don't want, to see if the Flex fare is cheaper than the less flexible fare for the train they actually want. This is currently a trial but is being deemed a success by the DfT and they want to roll it out across the country.

What we'd like to do with the forum site is to "pre-flex" the tickets, so that if you choose the 0701, we would automatically offer a 70 min flex ticket for the 0758, but I am not sure if the train companies will allow this, so it may not happen.

For now, you need to check the prices of all trains in a 140 min time window, to get the best price (this is considered more simple than buying a Super Off Peak ticket).
When I read this I thought it was 1st April :lol:
 

Adam Williams

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The fares data schema doesn't actually support such "flex" tickets, so bespoke work had to be done to ensure that these are handled correctly in terms of the advice on the E-Ticket for LNER (and one other TOC which then did a U-turn and decided not to introduce them after all).

I would therefore recommend fulfilling to E-Ticket if you choose to buy these products for the best experience.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, and all because off peak is apparently "so complicated" for everyone :lol:
 

Joe Paxton

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The fares data schema doesn't actually support such "flex" tickets, so bespoke work had to be done to ensure that these are handled correctly in terms of the advice on the E-Ticket for LNER (and one other TOC which then did a U-turn and decided not to introduce them after all).

I would therefore recommend fulfilling to E-Ticket if you choose to buy these products for the best experience.

What's the downside if one chooses printed ticket fulfilment - is it essentially that the advice on 'how to flex' is absent?

What do other retailers (thinking of the Trainline in particular) do regarding these Flex tickets and any advice on how to use them?
 

Adam Williams

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What's the downside if one chooses printed ticket fulfilment - is it essentially that the advice on 'how to flex' is absent?
You won't get the same summary of the validity window that you would, had you opted for ToD fulfilment.

Valid for scheduled departures from London Kings Cross between 11 Nov 2024 08:56 and 11 Nov 2024 11:16.  Scheduled arrival into Edinburgh must be no later than 11 Nov 2024 18:08.


What do other retailers (thinking of the Trainline in particular) do regarding these Flex tickets and any advice on how to use them?
I'd be surprised, given their scale, if they hadn't been able to implement the same E-Ticket changes.
 

Hadders

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You won't get the same summary of the validity window that you would, had you opted for ToD fulfilment.

Valid for scheduled departures from London Kings Cross between 11 Nov 2024 08:56 and 11 Nov 2024 11:16.  Scheduled arrival into Edinburgh must be no later than 11 Nov 2024 18:08.



I'd be surprised, given their scale, if they hadn't been able to implement the same E-Ticket changes.
Seems a bit odd to refer to the reservation as mandatory, when you can travel on an alternative service.

Not sure if there’s a better description or whether you can officially call it anything other than mandatory.
 

Adam Williams

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Seems a bit odd to refer to the reservation as mandatory, when you can travel on an alternative service.

Not sure if there’s a better description or whether you can officially call it anything other than mandatory.
And this is the problem with TOCs doing their own thing which isn't really officially supported by the spec.

I think I agree it should probably be "Optional reservations" .. but in the data it's still an Advance sigh
 

yorkie

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Seems a bit odd to refer to the reservation as mandatory, when you can travel on an alternative service.

Not sure if there’s a better description or whether you can officially call it anything other than mandatory.
Train companies such as LNER believe they are not constrained by the normal rules & norms, which don't apply to them; they feel they can do anything they want, mis advertise their trains/services in whatever way they want, and it becomes someone else's problem.

If only there was an effective and knowledgeable rail regulator, passenger watchdog or ombudsman with the power and intelligence to take effective action to prevent, or at least deter, rogue train companies from acting in such a manner...
 
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