5z45 on 13th June 2014

[BorisWiffWaff]

Does anyone know what this service from Carnforth Steamtown to Lincoln is likely to be?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Does anyone know what this service from Carnforth Steamtown to Lincoln is likely to be?

A quick look on UKsteam Info suggests it's 46233 'Duchess of Sutherland' working across for the Yorkshire Coronation tour on Saturday.

Leaves Lincoln at 06:26 with a diesel leading, and runs across to Derby, where it reverses and the Duchess takes over to run to Scarborough via Toton, Barrow Hill, Swinton, Milford Loop and York. Leaves Scarborough at 16:15, Duchess leading, and runs back to Derby, where the Diesel takes over for the run back to Lincoln, arriving 22:28, whilst the Duchess runs to the Midland Railway Centre at Butterley.

 

[BorisWiffWaff]

It was just the rolling stock movement, a class 47 on the front and 57 on the back. Thanks for the info though.

 

[455driver]

The steamer won't be on the back of the service train as the train would be limited to 45?mph.

 

[ryan125hst]

The steamer won't be on the back of the service train as the train would be limited to 45?mph.

I think they can be towed at upto 60 mph. It's only when they are tender first that they are restricted to 45 mph. I think it's something to do with the fact that locos pushing large tenders can be a bit unstable when leading. That's what I thought anyway. I can't remember where I read that though.

 

[455driver]

If the steamer is on the back then it will be tender first so I would think the 45mph limit would apply!

 

[Class 170101]

Tender first restrictions I understood to be due to sighting issues for drivers. It need not be tender first though as the boiler end could be trailing into Derby to then lead out on departure with diesel dead on the rear.

 

[ryan125hst]

If the steamer is on the back then it will be tender first so I would think the 45mph limit would apply!

It appears that this limit only applies if the tender is the leading vehicle.

From memory the 45mph for tender first steam locos is due to propelling the fixed wheelbase tender. Steam locos quite often get dragged around on the rear of trains for operational purposes (Folkestone East to Ashford or into terminal stations) and I don't think the restriction applies as the tender isn't the leading vehicle.

The full discussion can be found here: https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/mainline-running-max-speed-on-steam-engines.16882/

It appears that if the tender is the leading vehicle, the 45 mph limit applies, but if the steam loco is at the back of a rake of coaches with a diesel at the front, then it can be hauled faster. According to UK Steam, the limit in this case is 60 mph.

Tender locos travelling in reverse are normally limited to 35mph, but may be towed in reverse at speeds up to 60mph.

That 35 mph bit must be wrong though as we have agreed it's 45 mph (although it may be less for some locos!)

Is there anyone on here who is involved with mainline steam operations who can confirm what is correct?