5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[Techniquest]

So how does this extra fare work if I'm booking my ticket through a non-ScotRail app? I generally use GWR's app for all ticketing, as I'm building up my Nectar points happily that way. It will be interesting to see if I can still book a journey up the WHL, with a cycle space, without having to go through ScotRail specifically.

As for having to pay extra to have a seat in the 153, honestly I don't think that's a super bad thing. Obviously, I'd rather not pay a supplement to book a seat and a cycle space in the 153, however if that's how it has to be then so be it. £10 isn't the end of the world, and if it means I get to choose my seat as well as keep an eye on my beast then so be it. My bike isn't as valuable as a lot of bikes are, but she is my primary source of transportation and exercise. Without her, I'd not be able to go on my stress/anxiety-busting rides and that isn't a pleasant thought! So I'll pay the extra if needs be, just for that extra bit of peace of mind.

Not that I'll get a chance to do such a journey for a while anyway, and realistically it won't be until next year now, but that's not a bad thing as it gives me time to train the body ready for those big Scottish rides!

 

[Kite159]

The extra value will also depend on what the legroom is like on the seats in the 153s compared to the seats on the 156s.

But feels like a ripoff, worse than even standard premium on Avanti. A tourist trap and an extra tax on those who might want to sit near their bikes.

Will just cause issues to the staff when they get people who don't understand they will need to pay an extra tenner to sit in the 153.

 

[Townsend Hook]

I’m at a complete loss with this premium fare, to be honest. On services like the West Highland line which are heavily used by tourists, things like pretty maps on the tables showing the route, at-seat charging, a special livery, should be part of the core offer and apply to all vehicles of the train and not just one. People should see a West Highland service sitting on the stops at Queen Street amongst all the suburban services and think ‘wow, I want to travel on that route’. Just putting those bells and whistles in what is effectively a glorified bike van and then charging a premium fare for it is simply laughable.

 

[Anonymous10]

I’m at a complete loss with this premium fare, to be honest. On services like the West Highland line which are heavily used by tourists, things like pretty maps on the tables showing the route, at-seat charging, a special livery, should be part of the core offer and apply to all vehicles of the train and not just one. People should see a West Highland service sitting on the stops at Queen Street amongst all the suburban services and think ‘wow, I want to travel on that route’. Just putting those bells and whistles in what is effectively a glorified bike van and then charging a premium fare for it is simply laughable.

indeed i believe tfw are fitting in seat charging to all of their fleet

 

[Bletchleyite]

The extra value will also depend on what the legroom is like on the seats in the 153s compared to the seats on the 156s.

From the photos it looks no better.

I’m at a complete loss with this premium fare, to be honest. On services like the West Highland line which are heavily used by tourists, things like pretty maps on the tables showing the route, at-seat charging, a special livery, should be part of the core offer and apply to all vehicles of the train and not just one. People should see a West Highland service sitting on the stops at Queen Street amongst all the suburban services and think ‘wow, I want to travel on that route’. Just putting those bells and whistles in what is effectively a glorified bike van and then charging a premium fare for it is simply laughable.

Well, quite. Genuine First Class on that route would be worthwhile and would in my view sell very well to the tourists (2+1, extra legroom, curtains etc), but this isn't First Class. Well, it's sort of like First Class on LNR 350s - pay extra for a markedly inferior seat with less space - but a Richmond is many orders of magnitude worse than even a Fainsa Sophia, and I don't see how any class that appears to be directly connected to what is essentially a guard's van is in any way premium - they could at least have put a door on.

 

[pdeaves]

"Keep an eye on your belongings at all times"; fair enough. "Put large items in the designated area"; fair enough. "We want to charge a premium for you to do both those things"; hmmm.

I hope there is the opportunity to sit elsewhere for those who aren't so bothered about their bike/skis/whatever being in direct line of sight at all times.

 

[davetheguard]

The seats look comfortable, but I'm happy to accept that Bletchleyite has a lot more knowledge on the subject than me!

But they don't line up with the windows for goodness sake. And the windows are partially covered with that outside promotional wrap so you won't be able to see out properly even if you are by a window anyway. Ye gods. The West Highland deserves better than this. Adding the extra bike & seat capacity is a worthwhile improvement, but the "product" on offer certainly doesn't justify a supplement.

Want to see how it should -and could- be done? Visit Switzerland and travel on the Bernina or Glacier Express. Vast windows -even part of the roof is glazed- lots of comfortable seats that line up with the windows, and a restaurant car. And all on the metre gauge. The only trouble is the Swiss Franc is so strong these days you almost need a second mortgage to visit the country.

This feels like a laudable attempt to improve the quality of the accommodation on the West Highland that's been hijacked by the bean counters and accountants.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can't really line up seats with windows in a 153, the windows are too small for a bay but too big for a single seat row.

 

[marks87]

The windows next to the seats don’t have any of the wrap covering them.

 

[47434]

I think this is an incredibly forward thinking initiative. I saw 4 cyclists ejected from a train recently as the racks were full and their bikes blocked the door. We want people as a nation to get fit, reduce our reliance on cars, then we need to make the appropriate provision

 

[davetheguard]

You can't really line up seats with windows in a 153, the windows are too small for a bay but too big for a single seat row.

The windows next to the seats don’t have any of the wrap covering them

Perhaps I've been over critical.

The extra capacity is a welcome improvement, and being able to accommodate more bikes will, I'm sure, tap in to a largely currently suppressed market. But a supplement isn't justified.

 

[John Bishop]

Apologies if I’ve missed it, but what is the rational of using the Oban route? Surely FW would be more appealing for bikers than Oban?

 

[scotraildriver]

Apologies if I’ve missed it, but what is the rational of using the Oban route? Surely FW would be more appealing for bikers than Oban?

The Fort William trains currently run as 6 cars and split at Crianlarich so you can't add a 153 on as 7 cars is too long. They are beong used initially on the stand alone Obans which are 2 cars. Long term the plan is to run all trains separately and lose the Crianlarich split, then a 153 can be added to the FW.

 

[najaB]

Will just cause issues to the staff when they get people who don't understand they will need to pay an extra tenner to sit in the 153.

Is it actually £10 extra or is this just an assumed figure that the forum is working with?

 

[GALLANTON]

The Fort William trains currently run as 6 cars and split at Crianlarich so you can't add a 153 on as 7 cars is too long. They are beong used initially on the stand alone Obans which are 2 cars. Long term the plan is to run all trains separately and lose the Crianlarich split, then a 153 can be added to the FW.

If the plan is to run the Oban and Fort William services separately without a split at Crianlarich then perhaps it's time they just went back to proper loco-hauled services.

 

[XAM2175]

Want to see how it should -and could- be done? Visit Switzerland and travel on the Bernina or Glacier Express. Vast windows -even part of the roof is glazed- lots of comfortable seats that line up with the windows, and a restaurant car. And all on the metre gauge. The only trouble is the Swiss Franc is so strong these days you almost need a second mortgage to visit the country.

Preaching to the choir mate!

 

[Journeyman]

If the plan is to run the Oban and Fort William services separately without a split at Crianlarich then perhaps it's time they just went back to proper loco-hauled services.

Oh, yeah, like that's really going to happen...

 

[mcmad]

Want to see how it should -and could- be done? Visit Switzerland and travel on the Bernina or Glacier Express. Vast windows -even part of the roof is glazed- lots of comfortable seats that line up with the windows, and a restaurant car. And all on the metre gauge. The only trouble is the Swiss Franc is so strong these days you almost need a second mortgage to visit the country.

This feels like a laudable attempt to improve the quality of the accommodation on the West Highland that's been hijacked by the bean counters and accountants.

As long as your happy paying Swiss levels of taxation of course....

 

[Meerkat]

Does it actually say the Highland Explorer ticket will be more expensive?

 

[John Bishop]

The Fort William trains currently run as 6 cars and split at Crianlarich so you can't add a 153 on as 7 cars is too long. They are beong used initially on the stand alone Obans which are 2 cars. Long term the plan is to run all trains separately and lose the Crianlarich split, then a 153 can be added to the FW.

Thanks for that

 

[Bletchleyite]

As long as your happy paying Swiss levels of taxation of course....

Certainly for myself (I worked it out when I was working over there) the overall percentage of tax I would have paid had my income been taxed by Switzerland instead of the UK was near enough exactly the same if you included NI in UK income tax and the mandatory health insurance in Swiss tax. Salaries are higher though.

 

[Mordac]

As long as your happy paying Swiss levels of taxation of course....

Switzerland has pretty low taxes. It is also of course much more decentralized than the UK, so how much people pay vary massively with the canton they live in (the top federal tax rate is 11.50%).

 

[Rick1984]

My interpretation was more your paying to guarantee a space for your bike more than the enhanced experience

 

[Bletchleyite]

My interpretation was more your paying to guarantee a space for your bike more than the enhanced experience

I thought they were only talking about charging for those seats, not the bike spaces?

 

[Rick1984]

Ah perhaps I've got my wires crossed

 

[Watershed]

Paying for "first" class on a 153...

Do they realise that April Fools' Day was 3 months ago?

 

[craigybagel]

A couple of bays of proper 2+1 First Class in each 156, properly aligned to the large picture windows, would allow you to relieve them (me included) of more than a tenner. I'd pay £20 each way at least for a seat on the 1 side.

You'd need to pay me £10 to sit in a Richmond, they really are dross.

It's rare we agree, especially on seats, but on this one I'm with you 100% - yes, the idea of any kind of premium seating on a 153 is amusing in itself, but with Richmond seating?!

It's going to be very interesting to see how this pans out. Hopefully Scotrail know what they're doing - and they have access to more knowledge then us mere mortals, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I have my doubts.....

If the plan is to run the Oban and Fort William services separately without a split at Crianlarich then perhaps it's time they just went back to proper loco-hauled services.

Whilst I know the nostalgia of this appeals to certain posters, thankfully Scotrail have moved on from that. Loco hauled trains on the West Highland are subject to some severe speed restrictions - and with most platforms impossible to extend without great expense the last thing you want is 15 metres of train length taken up by a loco instead of usable passenger space.

 

[GLC]

I thought they were only talking about charging for those seats, not the bike spaces?

It’s a bit of both. In the event of there being more bikes than spaces, priority will be given to those who have purchased Highland Explorer tickets. So you pay extra to maximise your chances of being able to take your bike on a given service. It’s all explained on the FAQ page here https://www.scotrail.co.uk/scotrail-highland-explorer

 

[Techniquest]

It’s a bit of both. In the event of there being more bikes than spaces, priority will be given to those who have purchased Highland Explorer tickets. So you pay extra to maximise your chances of being able to take your bike on a given service. It’s all explained on the FAQ page here https://www.scotrail.co.uk/scotrail-highland-explorer

Thanks for providing that link, I have now seen the interior and I'm willing to spend the money on that Highland Explorer ticket. Those seats may not be the best in the world, but they will do just fine for me I reckon.

Kudos too for the artists involved in the artwork on the sides of the 153s, I like it. Ooh all this discussion has me wanting to get my Sustrans maps out and start planning some rides!

 

[najaB]

BR used to have a fleet of BSOs, BSKs, BFKs and BCKs that provided just that.

Brake vans provided open space, but they weren't designed specifically for bikes, unless I missed something?