47/7s replaced on E&G by 47/4s in final months

[StornowayCraig]

I was once told that in the final months of push-pull operations on the E&G, the reliability of the 47/7s was so bad that the loco's were regularly taken off for part of the day and replaced by 47/4s, only for them to be put back on for the afternoon rush-hour/evening. Can someone tell me if this was true?

 

[The exile]

I was once told that in the final months of push-pull operations on the E&G, the reliability of the 47/7s was so bad that the loco's were regularly taken off for part of the day and replaced by 47/4s, only for them to be put back on for the afternoon rush-hour/evening. Can someone tell me if this was true?

Operationally speaking that would have been a nightmare at both ends!

 

[CW2]

If there was a shortage of available 47/7s then 47/4s might substitute, but not on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route. Instead they would be used on services to Aberdeen or Inverness, where the lack of push pull capability was less of a problem.

 

[StornowayCraig]

Operationally speaking that would have been a nightmare at both ends!

That’s what I’ve often thought!

 

[The exile]

If there was a shortage of available 47/7s then 47/4s might substitute, but not on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route. Instead they would be used on services to Aberdeen or Inverness, where the lack of push pull capability was less of a problem.

And there was the odd rush hour extra that wasn’t push-pull anyway (certainly in 1988)

 

[hexagon789]

I was once told that in the final months of push-pull operations on the E&G, the reliability of the 47/7s was so bad that the loco's were regularly taken off for part of the day and replaced by 47/4s, only for them to be put back on for the afternoon rush-hour/evening. Can someone tell me if this was true?

It happened throughout the push-pull era on occasion, but especially 1989-1990.

The two Edinburgh/Aberdeen push-pull workings went back to 47/4 in October 1987.

Glasgow-Aberdeen was more often a 47/4 from late 1989 than a /7.

If there was a shortage of available 47/7s then 47/4s might substitute, but not on the Edinburgh - Glasgow route. Instead they would be used on services to Aberdeen or Inverness, where the lack of push pull capability was less of a problem.

Other than the Sunday Glasgow-Aberdeen-Inverness (which was not push-pull worked beyond Aberdeen) and the short-lived "Low cost" Jacobite (which wasnt always worked push-pull), Inverness services were not push-pull worked nor booked.

And 47/4s did substitute on Edinburgh-Glasgow, it was just about manageable on the (post-1986) 12 min turnaround, provided a loco was standing ready. The more problematic thing was the 95mph limit (not always adhered to of course).

 

[randyrippley]

so the 47/7 were already knackered before they got to Waterloo-Exeter?
explains a lot............

 

[hexagon789]

so the 47/7 were already knackered before they got to Waterloo-Exeter?
explains a lot............

Definitely, running frequently at 5mph over design speed from May 1984 didn't help either despite the much more frequent exams, but the staff notice for the introduction of 100mph operations noted that drivers were expected to accelerate to and maintain 100mph as much as possible as the accelerated schedule required it.

The adjustments to the field diverts for 100mph running also made them more sluggish at lower speeds.

In the Railway Magazine April 1990, there is an article on the end of push-pull, there are two logs with 47/7s on the E&G, one each way.

In the first log, the train fails to exceed 87mph (recorded at Lenzie), the driver mentions that you would normally expect to be doing 100 by then and that the loco deemed tired.

The other way, 94mph was the highest recorded, behind a different loco.

 

[CW2]

And there was the odd rush hour extra that wasn’t push-pull anyway (certainly in 1988)

1715 Queen Street - Edinburgh springs to mind. A very handy train home for the ScotRail office staff. Booked a 47/4, but did produce 37s and even 27s on occasions.

 

[hexagon789]

1715 Queen Street - Edinburgh springs to mind. A very handy train home for the ScotRail office staff. Booked a 47/4, but did produce 37s and even 27s on occasions.

In earlier years, that was booked the spare set of DBSO+Mk2Z (ex-E&G Class 27 p&p stock). By 1987, the spare was formed: 2F DBSO, 2Z BSO, 2Z TSO, 2Z TSO, 2D TSOT, 2A FK.

While this normally worked the diagram including the 1715/1716 SX Glasgow QS-Edinburgh, it was effectively the standby if anything went wrong so could be pressed onto other workings if necessary.