450'S on the South Coast

[Adsy125]

Hi,

Does anyone know which trains are diagrammed as 450's beyond Southampton? I know it's a few of the Poole stoppers. I'm interested so I can avoid all of them when I'm down there.

Thanks

 

[Class455]

Hi,

Does anyone know which trains are diagrammed as 450's beyond Southampton? I know it's a few of the Poole stoppers. I'm interested so I can avoid all of them when I'm down there.

Thanks

Glad to know I'm not the only one who hates 450's

 

[Adsy125]

They're not too bad for short journeys but 444's are so much better.

 

[NSE]

Haha, yeah given a choice I'd take the 444. I like those. Don't dislike the 450's, but I'd always take a 444 if there was a choice. From my limited SWML knowledge beyond Raynes Park, you're reasonably safe to assume anything going to/from Weymouth/London is going to be a 444. Not 100%, I believe there is some booked 450 work to Weymouth and substitutes happen etc, but to ensure I had a 444 to Soton when I went down that way, I always picked a Weymouth service for that reason.

 

[GW43125]

Hi,

Does anyone know which trains are diagrammed as 450's beyond Southampton? I know it's a few of the Poole stoppers. I'm interested so I can avoid all of them when I'm down there.

Thanks

In response to your original question, from the last timetable period (so may be slightly off), the workings are as follows on a weekday:

2W01 06:11 Bournemouth-Weymouth (4/450)
1B81 00:05 Waterloo-Bournemouth (8/450)
2B09 06:12 Waterloo-Branksome (4/450)
2B30 09:15 Branksome-Southampton Central (4/450)
2W26 07:25 Weymouth-Brockenhurst (4/450)
2B43 14:39 Waterloo-Brockenhurst (4/450)
2B62 17:20 Brockenhurst-Southampton Central (4/450)
2B32 & 2B36 08:50 & 09:50 Poole-Waterloo (4/450)
Then the following arrivals at Poole (time in brackets is the time they leave Waterloo):
2B19 11:55 (08:40) (4/450)
2B39 17:07 (13:39) (4/450)
1B59 21:55 (18:39) (4/450)
1B69 23:29 (21:05) (8/450)
Then these departures from Poole:
2B48 12:50 (4/450)
2B56 14:50 (4/450)
2B68 17:50 (4/450)
and finally:
2W26 07:25 Weymouth-Brockenhurst (4/450) (This appears to be the only 450 to make it to Weymouth)
Please note some of the services shown as starting from Southampton may have split from through services from London. I'll try to match them up tomorrow.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

2B09 06:12 Waterloo-Branksome (4/450)

That seems like an odd one, I would have expected it to terminate at either Bournemouth or Poole. Will it be terminating short of Poole because of timings elsewhere? Off-hand I can't remember if a 450 can fit into the bay platform at Bournemouth

 

[pompeyfan]

That seems like an odd one, I would have expected it to terminate at either Bournemouth or Poole. Will it be terminating short of Poole because of timings elsewhere? Off-hand I can't remember if a 450 can fit into the bay platform at Bournemouth

I would imagine it used to terminate at Bournemouth and then run empty into the depot. This way passengers to Branksome get an extra service on a train that was going that way anyway. To be fair I'm surprised more empty stock moves aren't done in service. But would the uptake on the service be enough to pay for a guard etc, or would the train end up getting in other services way?

 

[swt_passenger]

I would imagine it used to terminate at Bournemouth and then run empty into the depot.

The current setup (on RTT) is that 2B09 returns to Southampton from Branksome P2 in service as 2B30, then forms 5Y00 route learner to Woking via Havant.

That seems to have been since Dec 2015 at least. In the Dec 2014 timetable 2B30 was a Poole to Southampton Central service that came off Poole sidings ECS.

 

[TEW]

The 0612 from Waterloo used to run through to Weymouth. It was incredibly slow though and overtaken end route. In December 2015 an additional 0703 Waterloo-Weymouth was introduced, taking the path the 0612 previously used beyond Bournemouth.

 

[infobleep]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who hates 450's

I was once on a Guildford to Waterloo stopper via Cobham and some fellow passengers were commenting on how posh the 450 was. They had boarded at one of the country stations and not a London suburban one.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[pompeyfan]

The current setup (on RTT) is that 2B09 returns to Southampton from Branksome P2 in service as 2B30, then forms 5Y00 route learner to Woking via Havant.

That seems to have been since Dec 2015 at least. In the Dec 2014 timetable 2B30 was a Poole to Southampton Central service that came off Poole sidings ECS.

Ah thanks for that. It was me being lazy in research, in that case the set up is peculiar, and I can't explain why it would terminate there. I'd imagine this is one of the services that would be massively shaken up after Dec 2018.

In answer to the question regarding Bournemouth bay, the platform is at its limit holding 4x20m coaches.

 

[HopesAnchor131]

Out of curiosity, why do people not seem to like the 450s but prefer the 444s? I see no difference other than colours, doors and seat placements.

 

[pompeyfan]

Out of curiosity, why do people not seem to like the 450s but prefer the 444s? I see no difference other than colours, doors and seat placements.

I wonder if 450s laid out in 2+2 with the same seats as on the 444 would get the same reaction? It's the 2+3 configuration people don't like I'd assume.

 

[fgwrich]

I wonder if 450s laid out in 2+2 with the same seats as on the 444 would get the same reaction? It's the 2+3 configuration people don't like I'd assume.

Ironically then, like the 350/1. I do agree with you though, it's a shame SWT couldn't have ordered a batch of white 450s with a more intercity type interior for 'Connect' or outereaching type services. Perhaps it may have even appeased the Portsmouth Commuters after the loss of the 442/444 switch?

For those who don't know of, and in Short, what became the 350/1 was intended to be a batch of 5 car 450s for SWT but due to SRA interference at the time, was split into a smaller batch of additional 450s for SWT and the 350/1s for Silverlink - As such, the interiors in the /1s are a hybrid of SWT & Silverlink/Central Trains.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You could always do yourself a bigger favour and that's use the car, it'll be quicker, more convenient, comfortable and cheaper, no prats wibbling on their mobile phones or kids running amok.

I never use the train unless it's a long distance journey (200 miles +) and it involves going into a major city.

 

[swt_passenger]

As such, the interiors in the /1s are a hybrid of SWT & Silverlink/Central Trains.

I don't think that's a conclusion you can reasonably make.

The 450/2s would have been fitted out as "2003 style" inner suburban, so were far more likely to have been 2+3 throughout with no first class section.

Back in the day the 450/0 was considered the outer suburban variant, hence first class being fitted.

So I think the WCML (shared Central/Silverlink) 350/1 trains got their own layout, nothing to do with what SWT would have had fitted.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Ironically then, like the 350/1. I do agree with you though, it's a shame SWT couldn't have ordered a batch of white 450s with a more intercity type interior for 'Connect' or outereaching type services. Perhaps it may have even appeased the Portsmouth Commuters after the loss of the 442/444 switch?

For those who don't know of, and in Short, what became the 350/1 was intended to be a batch of 5 car 450s for SWT but due to SRA interference at the time, was split into a smaller batch of additional 450s for SWT and the 350/1s for Silverlink - As such, the interiors in the /1s are a hybrid of SWT & Silverlink/Central Trains.

Would the current LM trains out of Euston have been Silverlink? They might have been better off buying a batch of AC version 444s, which would better suit their long distance routes.

West of Southampton the trains don't seem to be so busy so the longer dwell times with the end doors of the 444s probably don't matter so much. The last few times that I've been on 444s heading east through Southampton it's been Southampton Central and Southampton Airport Parkway where they fill up a lot.

It's anyone's guess as to whether it'll be 444s or 450s on the Portsmouth-Weymouth services when they start, btw, can the juice west of Poole handle all scheduled trains being 2x450 or would that still overload the juice rail?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would the current LM trains out of Euston have been Silverlink? They might have been better off buying a batch of AC version 444s, which would better suit their long distance routes.

That wasn't possible at the time, because Siemens had already started building the right number of the 20m bodies that became the 350/1s. So the option of ordering what they wanted never came up, they were forced to take the 350/1s. They were not Silverlink only units, they were jointly operated with Central Trains. Carriage maps showed both TOCs, and the staff normally changed at Northampton (if you were not already aware of this). So they weren't just long distance services, they also formed Northampton to New St all stations stoppers.

100 x 4 car + 32 x 5 car = 560 vehicles.
became
110 x 4 car + 30 x 4 car = 560 vehicles.

Parts for a 20m Desiro body cannot become a 444 body as they are narrower vehicles - likewise the 444 cabs are not compatible with other Desiro UK classes for repair/conversion.

...can the juice west of Poole handle all scheduled trains being 2x450 or would that still overload the juice rail?

The sectional appendix restrictions still only allow single units west of Poole under normal circumstances.

There is no evidence of any changes on the horizon, so AFAICS an 8.450 cannot operate all day, only under exceptional circumstances. But it could operate doubled up east of Poole with splitting and joining if they chose to do so.

Thing is, no one really has a clue what is going to be used yet, or whether it will definitely take over the all stations stopper between Southampton and Weymouth - although that's my assumed probable service from the hints given by DfT...