442 on fire

[cjohnson]

Reports of Gatwick Express alight at South Croydon. There were a couple of similar incidents on 442s earlier this year as well (Victoria?)

 

[mirodo]

I can confirm this, as I was stood next to it at the time! I'll post some pictures on here when I get into the office, but if anyone wants to take a look in the meantime, they're on my twitter feed: @adrian74

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I do like a good hog roast...

This never seemed to be an issue when they were on the SouthWestern... Just time catching up with them?

 

[tsr]

There have been serious faults on 442s in the past week or so at Earlswood and Balham, which didn't smell very healthy, apparently... and yes, there was a fire at Victoria recently. Another fault on one at Haywards Heath this morning, too, I think.

Train involved today: 0900 London Victoria - Gatwick Airport. Incident occurred at approximately 0919 at South Croydon Platform 2. No injuries have been reported; 4 fire crews attended the station.

 

[ushawk]

Mmmm, smells like bacon !!

Having a lot of faults lately, but then what do you expect when the base equipment is over 40 years old. They need replacing badly.

 

[DXMachina]

They need replacing badly.

No, they need replacing properly

 

[MK Tom]

Was their electrical equipment taken from an older class like that in the 455s?

 

[mirodo]

 

[tsr]

Gatwick Express services have now been withdrawn until further notice today.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Was their electrical equipment taken from an older class like that in the 455s?

Yep. Not sure exactly what was recycled, but it was taken from their predecessors on the LSW Mainline, the Class 432 4-REPs.

 

[Smudger105e]

Yep. Not sure exactly what was recycled, but it was taken from their predecessors on the LSW Mainline, the Class 432 4-REPs.

I had to look over the REPs for the equipment when I was covering RSI at Croydon.

Iirc the salvaged equipment was traction equipment, motors, and the associated control gear such as camshafts, contactors etc, as well as some minor stuff like AWS control gear, receivers, relay boxes.

One REP provided the equipment for 2 442 motor coaches.

 

[ushawk]

Gatwick Express services have now been withdrawn until further notice today.

Not quite sure where you got that info from.....

Services were suspended for a short time due to the disruption and congestion caused - a sensible move to free up track space. Once lines had reopened and disruption had eased - it resumed service.

Nothing to do with the stock involved in the incident - it was simply suspended to free up space.

 

[swt_passenger]

Iirc the salvaged equipment was traction equipment, motors, and the associated control gear such as camshafts, contactors etc, as well as some minor stuff like AWS control gear, receivers, relay boxes.

The first 4REP builds were 1966/7 with a few in '74.

Nothing goes on forever...

 

[mirodo]

Another picture, identifying the unit affected as 62946.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The first 4REP builds were 1966/7 with a few in '74.

Nothing goes on forever...

I was lead to believe that the 4-REPs had the same traction equipment and bogies as a class 73. In case that seems incredible remember that one 4-REP would propel itself and two 4-TCs from Waterloo to Bournemouth. A class 33/1 (diesel loco) would then take one or two of the 4-TCs on to Weymouth. But don't tell DaFT as they want to believe that sort of thing is impossible (1966 to about 1980s/1990s was a long time ago !). The 4-TCs were unpowered Multiple Units that effectively could inter operate with most Southern EMUs (also 33/1s and 73s) and looked like them. So the 4-REP traction equipment was man enough to handle 12 coaches !. Now it does that spread into two 5 car MK3 coach EMUs (slightly longer coaches ?). But yes they have done 44 years service and I guess some component is breaking down ?.

 

[tsr]

Not quite sure where you got that info from.....

Southern. I simply used a poor choice of words to relay that information! My apologies.

Services were suspended for a short time due to the disruption and congestion caused - a sensible move to free up track space. Once lines had reopened and disruption had eased - it resumed service.

Yes, that's what I meant. In fact, I believe services were suspended twice, with the second suspension around 1330 (I think) being very brief and possibly publicised in error. I'm not sure what happened there!

Nothing to do with the stock involved in the incident - it was simply suspended to free up space.

Indeed not. Though one wonders how long they will keep running when these hazards to passenger safety are threatening to develop - and do develop - so often. The repeated issue of them catching fire is only heightened by the small exits which are also each in close proximity to each other & gangways (where fire/smoke could start to enter from an adjacent coach), and the possible proportions of passengers who may not have a great grasp of English and thus may not be able to understand the safety/evacuation announcements - if they are only briefly in the UK, having used Gatwick Airport, this is a distinct possibility.

 

[jon0844]

Anyone know if it's true the fire was caused by an intense debate on board between Yorkie and a member of staff about the validity of a Southern-only ticket?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Wouldnt surprise me. if so then thank god cl90 locos arnt regular features on Gat X services, same goes for cl180 DMUs!

 

[Jonny]

I was lead to believe that the 4-REPs had the same traction equipment and bogies as a class 73. In case that seems incredible remember that one 4-REP would propel itself and two 4-TCs from Waterloo to Bournemouth. A class 33/1 (diesel loco) would then take one or two of the 4-TCs on to Weymouth. But don't tell DaFT as they want to believe that sort of thing is impossible (1966 to about 1980s/1990s was a long time ago !). The 4-TCs were unpowered Multiple Units that effectively could inter operate with most Southern EMUs (also 33/1s and 73s) and looked like them. So the 4-REP traction equipment was man enough to handle 12 coaches !. Now it does that spread into two 5 car MK3 coach EMUs (slightly longer coaches ?). But yes they have done 44 years service and I guess some component is breaking down ?.

Sorry to be picky, but a class 73 without the diesel engine and associated stuff.

Still, an alternative would be to take the equipment off and reconfigure them as coaching stock (possibly with the cabs modified for push-pull work).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Another picture, identifying the unit affected as 62946.

That's a carriage number, not a unit number.

62946 is in unit 442 409.

 

[Smudger105e]

Peter, the 442s do indeed have EE546 traction motors the same as the EDs but they are normally aspirated whereas the 73s have T/M blowers. The control equipment on a REP was air/oil operated camshaft I think, similar to the 1957/63 stock, but the EDs had electric motor powered camshafts with more notches and there were two of them. So motors = same, power control = different.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[Peter Sarf]

Peter, the 442s do indeed have EE546 traction motors the same as the EDs but they are normally aspirated whereas the 73s have T/M blowers. The control equipment on a REP was air/oil operated camshaft I think, similar to the 1957/63 stock, but the EDs had electric motor powered camshafts with more notches and there were two of them. So motors = same, power control = different.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

Thanks Loco Fitter for the info. Are they the same (motor) bogies btw ?.

Jonny - yea did not mention the engine in the 73 !. I should really as it is an early example of the Railways in Britain using BI-Mode technology. Que discussions about the 71s (with a flywheel) and the 74s (another Bi-Mode) that were a 71s with an engine vice flywheel.

 

[BestWestern]

Have to wonder whether there is a maintenance issue at play here; it seems rather odd that numerous members of the class all simultaneously begin self combusting, even if the electrical kit is getting old. How many locos are running around with equally ancient traction motors and no obvious bbq issues?! Island Line manage with tube stock from 1938, and Blackpool was running tramcars of similar vintage until recently, so it'd hardly beyond scope to service and maintain traction kit from the mid sixties. It's a shame, the Wessex is one of the best units on the network.

 

[sarahj]

There was a common reasons in some of the earlier 'overheatings' not sure if its the same with this one. Not sure myself if its in the end due to age, style of driving when moving from one class to another, or something about the crammed Brighton main line. (or even all three) The others were due to a component overheating.
Cannot go into too much detail on an open forum, though I'm sure someone on here knows more.