4 lines into 2

[QueensCurve]

Yeah Tamworth-Rugeley was 2 tracks until around 2007 time.

I realise the Northampton line is technically a separate loop but I've always seen it as just being the WCML slows taking a slightly different route to the fasts. That way, minus the slightly annoying three-track section north of Rugby and the two-track section through that tunnel near Stafford it is effectively 4-track from Euston to just short of Winsford.

But still 3 tracks (since mid 1980s part way be3tween Rugby and Nuneaton) and only 2 from Colwich to just north of Shugborough Tunnel.

 

[Ianno87]

Where do you draw the line though? In my mind, if there are stations on both routes of the loop, it doesn't count. So, the Northampton loop does count as there are no stations on the fast line route, but the Corby loop doesn't because of Market Harborough & Leicester. Handily, this also means that with Old Oak Common HS2 doesn't mess up the system, either!

Indeed - the point of the Joint Line upgrade via Lincoln is to (in effect) provide two usable additional ECML tracks all the way to Doncaster, albeit with a rather large geographic detour.

 

[Martin S Heron]

I think the line out of Fenchurch Street probably has the shortest distance before dropping to two tracks... about 600 yards!

Although arguably it goes back to four tracks between Barking and Pitsea

 

[Trog]

But still 3 tracks (since mid 1980s part way be3tween Rugby and Nuneaton) and only 2 from Colwich to just north of Shugborough Tunnel.

Brinklow to south of Nuneaton has been three tracks since the days of the LNWR.

 

[swt_passenger]

Brinklow to south of Nuneaton has been three tracks since the days of the LNWR.

...and as has been mentioned in previous discussions, it effectively solves the problems of swapping the fast and slow from side to side between Rugby and Nuneaton. I didn't think it was that obvious how they would overcome that if it were made four track throughout.

 

[QueensCurve]

Indeed - the point of the Joint Line upgrade via Lincoln is to (in effect) provide two usable additional ECML tracks all the way to Doncaster, albeit with a rather large geographic detour.

...a rather large unelectrified geographic detour...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Brinklow to south of Nuneaton has been three tracks since the days of the LNWR.

Correct me again if I am wrong, but I recall the 4th track being removed in the mid 1980s.

 

[QueensCurve]

...and as has been mentioned in previous discussions, it effectively solves the problems of swapping the fast and slow from side to side between Rugby and Nuneaton. I didn't think it was that obvious how they would overcome that if it were made four track throughout.

The Down Fast was on the West of the formation on the approach to Colwich before TV4. Now it reverts to a more standard paired by direction layout. This means that both routes from the Down Fast are slow at Colwich. Again a short 3 tracki stretch could solve this

A suggested remodel:-

 

[najaB]

A suggested remodel...

For those of us who don't happen to have the SA to hand, what is the current layout please?

 

[takno]

For those of us who don't happen to have the SA to hand, what is the current layout please?

https://traksy.uk/live/M+27+RUGL+22

attachment from the SA for speeds etc

 

[najaB]

https://traksy.uk/live/M+27+RUGL+22

attachment from the SA for speeds etc

Thanks. A messy layout currently, but I'm not sure that QueensCurve's remodel goes far enough - it still looks like a slightly less messy layout afterwards. Though, given that HS2 is on the horizon, it might be difficult to justify a more expensive solution.

 

[Philip Elliott]

...a rather large unelectrified geographic detour...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Correct me again if I am wrong, but I recall the 4th track being removed in the mid 1980s.

The fourth track from Brinklow southwards to Rugby was removed in the 1980s.

 

[Trog]

...and as has been mentioned in previous discussions, it effectively solves the problems of swapping the fast and slow from side to side between Rugby and Nuneaton. I didn't think it was that obvious how they would overcome that if it were made four track throughout.

How about by using the flyover south of Rugby that takes the Dn New over the Old Lines and drops it back onto the Dn side of the combined formation?

 

[swt_passenger]

How about by using the flyover south of Rugby that takes the Dn New over the Old Lines and drops it back onto the Dn side of the combined formation?

Would that not lose the advantage they currently have that a train from Northampton to the Trent Valley, (either freight to passenger) can be kept out of the way of a fast train towards Coventry and New St?

I dare say they'd have to weigh up a few pros and cons, but of course with HS2 it may never become an important issue...

 

[The Planner]

Thanks. A messy layout currently, but I'm not sure that QueensCurve's remodel goes far enough - it still looks like a slightly less messy layout afterwards. Though, given that HS2 is on the horizon, it might be difficult to justify a more expensive solution.

It is frankly a mad solution as it makes Colwich worse as you add down slow conflicts into anything towards Hixon. Nothing dramatic will ever happen to Colwich in terms of remodelling, its due for renewal in CP6 at the same time as the re-sig.

 

[Trog]

Would that not lose the advantage they currently have that a train from Northampton to the Trent Valley, (either freight to passenger) can be kept out of the way of a fast train towards Coventry and New St?

There are two ramps down from the flyover in that case you could run the New Line to TV train down the ramp that comes down between the Up and Dn Old, while the Dn Old to Birmingham train kept to the Dn side of the layout.

 

[Darandio]

Hopefully someone can dig out a early 80's timetable and confirm.

In my May to September '86 timetable it has nortbound 'expresses' calling at Huntingdon at 0557, 0626, 0945, 1059, 1417, 1658, 1754, 1819, 1857, 1929, 2039, 2129, 0008. Southbound was 0729, 0744, 0756, 0834, 1015, 1236, 1413, 1457, 1816, 2214.

I actually thought there were more than that.

 

[Class 170101]

I think the line out of Fenchurch Street probably has the shortest distance before dropping to two tracks... about 600 yards!

Prior to the DLR It was four tracks to Limehouse. Also before the District Line and the BR lines were segregated it was four tracks from Bromley By Bow to Upminster.

 

[The Ham]

Prior to the DLR It was four tracks to Limehouse. Also before the District Line and the BR lines were segregated it was four tracks from Bromley By Bow to Upminster.

In effect the metro services use the slow lines, just having built their own network which only needed sections of the line..

Which leads to the question, if for tracks were required again would it be better to alter the DLR and District Line tracks or doing something like Crossrail?

 

[AM9]

In effect the metro services use the slow lines, just having built their own network which only needed sections of the line..

Which leads to the question, if for tracks were required again would it be better to alter the DLR and District Line tracks or doing something like Crossrail?

It would take a considerable effort to increase the 2 tracks all the way to Barking before the need for a stretch of less than one mile to Fenchurch St. became critical.