4 class 92 questions

[Phoenix]

Hi I have been recently reading up on the class 92's and would I be correct in saying that..............

1.They are the only 3 Phase electric loco's in the uk.
2.They are the most power loco in the uk.
3.They have no recorded maximum tractive effort.
4.92003 worked the very last BR service 9a freight)

It would be good if these details could all be comfirmed as it would give me some interesting detailsd on the class.

All the best.

 

[rail-britain]

HST power cars supply 3 phase electric
or do you mean that the Class 92 utilise 3 power sources to power their traction motors?
I would have though the most powerful loco in the UK would be the Channel Tunnel locos?

 

[Phoenix]

HST power cars supply 3 phase electric
or do you mean that the Class 92 utilise 3 power sources to power their traction motors?
I would have though the most powerful loco in the UK would be the Channel Tunnel locos?

I mean 3 phase as in 3 phase traction motors yes but the hst thing is quite interesting.
And I checked and both the Eurotunnel 9's and the 92's have no registered maximum tractive effort but if theres somthing else I can do to see which is stronger.

 

[rail-britain]

Euro Tunnel Class 9 locos :
Rail BHP: 7725 hp
Maximum tractive effort: 90,000 lb/f

Class 92 locos :
Rail BHP: 6760 hp
Maximum tractive effort: 90,000 lb/f

Class 373 units :
Rail BHP : 16300 hp (presumably falling to 7640 hp when in the Tunnel!)

 

[Phoenix]

Euro Tunnel Class 9 locos :
Rail BHP: 7725 hp
Maximum tractive effort: 90,000 lb/f

Class 92 locos :
Rail BHP: 6760 hp
Maximum tractive effort: 90,000 lb/f

Class 373 units :
Rail BHP : 16300 hp (presumably falling to 7640 hp when in the Tunnel!)

so by that I assume that the 9's are the most powerfull but both have equal tractive effort.

 

[P156KWJ]

Hi I have been recently reading up on the class 92's and would I be correct in saying that..............

1.They are the only 3 Phase electric loco's in the uk.
2.They are the most power loco in the uk.
3.They have no recorded maximum tractive effort.
4.92003 worked the very last BR service 9a freight)

It would be good if these details could all be comfirmed as it would give me some interesting detailsd on the class.

All the best.

I know it was a 92 that operated the last service operated by the British Railways board, but not sure which. Some drivers started the day working for British Rail and when they signed off they were working for EWS

 

[Oracle]

Off-topic I suppose but 3 x 4-REPs were trialled when new: 9,900 hp!

As to 'three-phase', do you mean 750v dc + 25kv + [1500 dc isn't it in Belgium]? 'Tri-voltage' I think they call it, though on the Continent they have different 25kv frequencies on some systems requiring locos that can cope?

 

[Crompton Karl]

Class 373 units :
Rail BHP : 16300 hp (presumably falling to 7640 hp when in the Tunnel!)

I suspect the 7640 hp quote was for when they used to operate off 3rd Rail, as the tunnel is at 25kv ac so theoretically the 16300 hp output should stay the same

Karl

 

[LucaZone]

From Traction Recognition:

Class 92

• Traction Output: 6,700hp (OHE), 5,360hp (3rd Rail)
• Tractive Effort: 81,000lb (normal), 90,000lb (boost?)
• Power Supply: AC 25kV or DC 750V

Class 9/7 'Eurotunnel'

• Traction Output: 9,387hp (OHE)
• Tractive Effort: 90,000lb
• Power Supply: AC 25kV

I mention power supply, because some have said the 92's have 3 collection methods, but it appears they dont. This is confirmed because the Class 373 Eurostar in the same book is listed as having : AC 25kV, DC 750V and DC 3kV which is what I think people have assumed the Class 92 has.

With regard to the Class 92 being the most powerful loco, this is probably true for Mainline Certification, because as you know the Eurotunnel loco is locked into the Eurotunnel system, so it may not truely be classed as most powerful UK loco.

 

[Phoenix]

I know it was a 92 that operated the last service operated by the British Railways board, but not sure which. Some drivers started the day working for British Rail and when they signed off they were working for EWS

Bit harsh really I bet they still think there in the middle of a nightmare.

 

[TheSlash]

Most stuff is 3 phase drive these days

 

[Phoenix]

As to 'three-phase', do you mean 750v dc + 25kv + [1500 dc isn't it in Belgium]? 'Tri-voltage' I think they call it, though on the Continent they have different 25kv frequencies on some systems requiring locos that can cope?

Well I don't know the specific details on three phase but no I doesn't mean that it has three types of picking up power basically units such as 321's are not three phase so when they leave stations they seem to make a yawning sounds that just gets louder till they get to a certain point where as a three-phase unit like a 323 tends to make 3 different sets of sounds as it slowly goes up in speed.

Please someone explain what I just said in better terms.

 

[Royston Vasey]

the Eurotunnel loco is locked into the Eurotunnel system, so it may not truely be classed as most powerful UK loco.

Technically on international soil isn't it, since it is past border control?? Like "airside" at an airport??

 

[TheSlash]

Well i did think i had an answer to this but now i'm not so sure. I was going to say they are still three phase but controlled differently, but now i'm struggling to find out if they are actually DC motors with chopper control

 

[P156KWJ]

Bit harsh really I bet they still think there in the middle of a nightmare.

what do you mean?

 

[Phoenix]

what do you mean?

It's just funny how you go to sleep working for BR and the next day your working for EWS.It's just me but I would think that to be a step down.

 

[djw1981]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_power explains it better than I ever could. It is very good for motors

 

[jopsuk]

As said- there are several classes running around with three phase motors- Electrostars of all varities, for example. What we don't have in this country though is three-phase supply to trains (though the National Grid is three-phase), rather we have single phase AC or DC (which being direct, has no phases). Three phase OHL does exist elsewhere, but is very complicated- you essentially need two parallel overhead lines, with seperate and insulated current collectors. One thing you'll spot there is that a reversing loop, or track layout that effectively forms a reversing loop, is somewhat tricky- those with model railway systems should recognise the issue.

Thankfully, 3phase AC-DC-3phase AC and 3phase-1-phase-3phase conversion can be carried out fairly efficiently. And then, as said, it does make for superb motors.

 

[EE Type 3]

As said- there are several classes running around with three phase motors- Electrostars of all varities, for example. What we don't have in this country though is three-phase supply to trains (though the National Grid is three-phase), rather we have single phase AC or DC (which being direct, has no phases). Three phase OHL does exist elsewhere, but is very complicated- you essentially need two parallel overhead lines, with seperate and insulated current collectors. One thing you'll spot there is that a reversing loop, or track layout that effectively forms a reversing loop, is somewhat tricky- those with model railway systems should recognise the issue.

Thankfully, 3phase AC-DC-3phase AC and 3phase-1-phase-3phase conversion can be carried out fairly efficiently. And then, as said, it does make for superb motors.

Ahhh! I was trying to forget all of that!!

 

[rail-britain]

Technically on international soil isn't it, since it is past border control?? Like "airside" at an airport??

All services are classed as EU Domestic, from an "international" point of view
The Eurostar and freight trains pass from UK to France just before reaching the Tunnel complex
The EuroTunnel trains are permanently in France

 

[Phoenix]

All services are classed as EU Domestic, from an "international" point of view
The Eurostar and freight trains pass from UK to France just before reaching the Tunnel complex
The EuroTunnel trains are permanently in France

So the eurotunnel isn't no mans land then???

 

[Oracle]

Interesting! The international border is nearer the French side than half-way I thought, and is marked. Part of the Folkestone terminal was by treaty deemed French territory, and vice versa at Calais, for immigration purposes as the UK is not a Schengen Treaty country. Eurotunnel trains must be French-domiciled assets then? The company is in effect French now with the majority of its shareholding French I believe?

You might like to know that the tunnel etc. is mortgaged, and the legal problems of banks taking security over it because of the two disparate legal systems applying was a mjaor challenge to the lawyers at the time.

 

[O L Leigh]

Cl92's are indeed the only UK electric locos to use a 3-phase asynchronous power control system and also the only ones to have regenerative braking in addition to the rheostatic and air brake. This has been a standard feature on every EMU since the Networkers though but only the Electro-Tugs have it.

Just to clarify, talking about 3-phase electronics has nothing to do with the way in which power is collected. Also, the 3-phase supply on HST powercars is the 415V train supply and nothing to do with the traction package.

O L Leigh

 

[P156KWJ]

Interesting! The international border is nearer the French side than half-way I thought, and is marked. Part of the Folkestone terminal was by treaty deemed French territory, and vice versa at Calais, for immigration purposes as the UK is not a Schengen Treaty country. Eurotunnel trains must be French-domiciled assets then? The company is in effect French now with the majority of its shareholding French I believe?

You might like to know that the tunnel etc. is mortgaged, and the legal problems of banks taking security over it because of the two disparate legal systems applying was a mjaor challenge to the lawyers at the time.

I think that the English Channel is not classed as international waters as there is such a small gap between France and Britain (unfortunately perhaps? ) and there's so many shipping routes too, that there's still a border.

 

[Oracle]

The Straits of Dover are not international waters as there is not sufficient space to get outside the maritime boundaries. The Channel does I think open out enough though. The main shipping lanes are in the middle, around 51 degrees North. If you fly over it you can tell where you are by seeing the lines of ships! Because of the geography of the tunnel, there is more on the British side than the French, undersea.

Didn't the Class 76s have air & vaccum brakes and also regenerative & rheostatic? I assume that the 77s did. It was said that two 76 trains descending using regenerative braking could produce enough electricity to power a 76 up the gradient.

 

[TheSlash]

I think quite a lot of stuff from that era had dual brakes.