3tph on North Downs Line

[infobleep]

*cough* I've successfully made this extremely unofficial connection several times. But the argument being put forward is that Redhill is an adequate interchange for NDL passengers travelling south. It simply isn't.

I use to make it when the train into Gatwick Airport arrived earlier than its been timetabled to in recent yeses. Of course it helps with the train to Eastbourne is late.

The interchange at Redhill is only good if all you are doing is travelling on 1 other train from Redhill to a destination south of there. As soon as Gatwick Airport comes into play for interchange, things are not as good.

Th8s might be improved with the connection time between services from GWR and other operators was 5 minutes instead of 10. I believe it is 5 minutes for some operators or services unless I'm mistaken.

 

[cle]

Gatwick still suffers from not having been built for interchange, and historically, the only real investment being on P1/2 in terms of escalators and access. Much remedied now, but it's still unfortunately a poor place to change trains, given it's such a hub and so few services skip it compared to even a few years back.

 

[David Goddard]

Gatwick still suffers from not having been built for interchange, and historically, the only real investment being on P1/2 in terms of escalators and access. Much remedied now, but it's still unfortunately a poor place to change trains, given it's such a hub and so few services skip it compared to even a few years back.

Got it in one. Built for the obvious purpose, to serve the airport, based on everyone leaving a train leaving the station to go into the terminal. As more and more trains called there it developed into being just as important as a rail interchange for which the infrastructure can't support.

 

[infobleep]

Got it in one. Built for the obvious purpose, to serve the airport, based on everyone leaving a train leaving the station to go into the terminal. As more and more trains called there it developed into being just as important as a rail interchange for which the infrastructure can't support.

However this is all changing with the works they are doing so hopefully that will help. I currently ignore the various no exit signs when using the station as by doing so I avoid the lifts to platform 5 and 6. I'd have thought avoiding lifts at this current time would be better than not observing a no exit sign

However this is digressing from three trains an hour point.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes - I was wondering if this thread was going to be re-titled as it has strayed so far from the current one.

 

[infobleep]

Yes - I was wondering if this thread was going to be re-titled as it has strayed so far from the current one.

Just think, this thread was started in January 2017 and @Barn thought the three trains an hour would come in, in May 2017. You then thought it would be more likely May 2018. And here we are waiting for it to happen. How time flies.

 

[The Ham]

Just think, this thread was started in January 2017 and @Barn thought the three trains an hour would come in, in May 2017. You then thought it would be more likely May 2018. And here we are waiting for it to happen. How time flies.

Whilst it's fascinating how time had flown by, it's still target disappointing that we are still waiting for the increase in frequency.

I suspect that if either of those dates had been met that there would be discussions by now (well pre Covid-19) about when the 4th should be being introduced or how there was a need for longer services as passenger numbers had taken off.

 

[Horizon22]

Just think, this thread was started in January 2017 and @Barn thought the three trains an hour would come in, in May 2017. You then thought it would be more likely May 2018. And here we are waiting for it to happen. How time flies.

As I stated a few posts up, it is at least happening soon.

I didn't see it mentioned above but from 14th September there will be 4 additional round trips Monday to Friday with 3tph on Saturdays.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Noted at Deepdene yesterday that platform extension works are in progress presumably for the Cl769's. With those in operation that will probably be another excuse not to run 3TPH

 

[JonathanH]

With those in operation that will probably be another excuse not to run 3TPH

Huh? The increase in fleet size provided by 769s is the only way 3tph can happen.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Huh? The increase in fleet size provided by 769s is the only way 3tph can happen.

Not true, the 769s are to release Turbos to provide service enhancements in the Bristol area commuter routes. Although if the full 3tph were starting now, one additional set would be required to make the SX version of the plan sufficiently robust. What is planned for September AIUI is a midweek ‘taster’ of four additional round trips between Reading and Redhill, and a full trial of the hourly fast path on Saturdays, although in both cases they will not be going through to Gatwick, to avoid risking the Brighton Main Line performance if it proves not to work well.

 

[JN114]

The irony being that all the time sat in the platform at Redhill is likely to have more of an impact on the Brighton Main Line not less - They we’re working towards having Redhill Loco reopened by the time the new TT goes live, but it’s not signed off yet....

 

[Minstral25]

Noted at Deepdene yesterday that platform extension works are in progress presumably for the Cl769's. With those in operation that will probably be another excuse not to run 3TPH

Odd - The platforms at Deepdene I believe are recorded as 87m long which is more than long enough for a 79m Class 769 unless its works to put signals in the right place or if some of the old platform needs repairs.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Odd - The platforms at Deepdene I believe are recorded as 87m long which is more than long enough for a 79m Class 769 unless its works to put signals in the right place or if some of the old platform needs repairs.

I don’t sign the road but usually with ‘new’ traction on a route there’s issues with signal sighting and so forth. Quite feasible they’ll be extending the platforms in order to give the regulatory 25m sighting required for platform starting signals.

 

[JonathanH]

Quite feasible they’ll be extending the platforms in order to give the regulatory 25m sighting required for platform starting signals.

Nothing like a platform starting signal at Dorking Deepdene - the signal eastbound is visible but some distance away from the platform after the bridge over the Horsham line - the signal westbound is halfway to Dorking West.

 

[RichT54]

Odd - The platforms at Deepdene I believe are recorded as 87m long which is more than long enough for a 79m Class 769 unless its works to put signals in the right place or if some of the old platform needs repairs.

There was a news article a couple of years ago which described "Huge £21m upgrade proposals for Dorking Deepdene include new platforms and elevated walkway linking stations" but I can't remember seeing anything about it being accepted?

 

[Minstral25]

There was a news article a couple of years ago which described "Huge £21m upgrade proposals for Dorking Deepdene include new platforms and elevated walkway linking stations" but I can't remember seeing anything about it being accepted?

Deepdene needs sorting out as access is very poor, however the £21m quote on that news article was very short of funds needed to build in a railway environment (especially with Network Rail defining the processes) - the plan if I recall correctly including connecting Deepdene with Town Stations with an external walkway. Good idea in principle along with their plan to connect Reigate to Dorking Town by a new chord and extending the Reigate London Services via East Croydon there.

 

[The Ham]

Deepdene needs sorting out as access is very poor, however the £21m quote on that news article was very short of funds needed to build in a railway environment (especially with Network Rail defining the processes) - the plan if I recall correctly including connecting Deepdene with Town Stations with an external walkway. Good idea in principle along with their plan to connect Reigate to Dorking Town by a new chord and extending the Reigate London Services via East Croydon there.

There's been a consultantion on improvements to Reigate station to improve facilities to facilitate Thameslink services:

7 things that will or won't improve with Reigate Station upgrade

A consultation on a major upgrade to the station so it can be added to the Thameslink route has been completed

www.getsurrey.co.uk

Not sure what impact that would/wouldn't have on an extension to Deepdene.

 

[JonathanH]

There's been a consultantion on improvements to Reigate station to improve facilities to facilitate Thameslink services:

7 things that will or won't improve with Reigate Station upgrade

A consultation on a major upgrade to the station so it can be added to the Thameslink route has been completed

www.getsurrey.co.uk

Not sure what impact that would/wouldn't have on an extension to Deepdene.

No impact whatsoever. Well into speculative territory.

 

[infobleep]

Not true, the 769s are to release Turbos to provide service enhancements in the Bristol area commuter routes. Although if the full 3tph were starting now, one additional set would be required to make the SX version of the plan sufficiently robust. What is planned for September AIUI is a midweek ‘taster’ of four additional round trips between Reading and Redhill, and a full trial of the hourly fast path on Saturdays, although in both cases they will not be going through to Gatwick, to avoid risking the Brighton Main Line performance if it proves not to work well.

So will the other fast trains be to running to Gatwick Airport in September?

I take if the services goes OK then they will test it to Gatwick Airport at some point?

Will they also be looking to see how successful it is before deciding whether to carry the tests on further or is the test purely about reliability rather than popularity and reliability?

It may prove popular to and from Reading to Redhill. However, anyone wanting Gatwick Airport or south of there might as well just travel on a direct service, if it runs

 

[FenMan]

There are 84 departures from Gatwick today, still well down from normal but a huge increase from the single Ryanair departure a couple of months back.

It is disappointing that the direct train to Gatwick hasn't yet been restored.

 

[swt_passenger]

Regarding the Redhill to Gatwick leg of this service, isn’t there a current requirement to reduce services and turnrounds at Gatwick during the rebuild anyway? Will that not clash with attempts to run more GWR trains there?

 

[infobleep]

Regarding the Redhill to Gatwick leg of this service, isn’t there a current requirement to reduce services and turnrounds at Gatwick during the rebuild anyway? Will that not clash with attempts to run more GWR trains there?

I had previously read on a post on here that it wouldn't do.

The reason for the less trains running at the moment was explained here:

It’s an emergency timetable on the Bedwyn route related to the small pandemic we have going on out there.

It see Reading to Newbury shuttles and Paddington to Bedwyns merged into a Reading to Bedwyn shuttle, as the service doesn’t reach London where the 80x are based using Reading based turbos is more logical.

GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

First class available on 3-car 165s and at one end of a 166 when operating LTV services. Thanks.

www.railforums.co.uk

The shuttles are still running during the day but not in the peaks. I would have kind of hoped with the change in the government messaging on travel they might have been able to run more trains and thus free up stock to run to Gatwick Airport. There is one train that waits at Redhill, which could run to Gatwick Airport at least, as part of the emergency timetable.

At this rate they might put on more trains to Gatwick Airport just as the country locks down again, if that were to happen. This is getting too far away from the original thread topic though, so I'll leave it there.

Of course if a further lockdown happened prior to the next timetable change, could we see the reduced timetable continuing but with the additional planned fast trains running, thus meaning still only trains runs to Gatwick Airport on a Sunday evening.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

To my understanding, the trial enhanced GWR timetable comes into play on a date in September that aligns with a wider increase to the overall timetable, as per DfT instructions. At that stage the hourly semi-fast will run to Gatwick as normal, but the new fast services will terminate at Redhill.

This seems sensible, as it tests the Guildford overtaking principle (amongst other things) without impacting the trains to/from Gatwick - the overtakes involve the fast Redhill overtaking the stopping Redhill. Even in a pandemic, the performance of the BML and Thameslink is of national importance.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are 84 departures from Gatwick today, still well down from normal but a huge increase from the single Ryanair departure a couple of months back.

It is disappointing that the direct train to Gatwick hasn't yet been restored.

Average of 230 flights last August but deeper issue is people still avoiding trains to get to the airport although the long term car parks are also devoid of cars so not sure how people are getting there

 

[Class 170101]

Average of 230 flights last August but deeper issue is people still avoiding trains to get to the airport although the long term car parks are also devoid of cars so not sure how people are getting there

Lifts to / from Airport from family or friends so car never parks at the airport.

 

[FenMan]

Average of 230 flights last August but deeper issue is people still avoiding trains to get to the airport although the long term car parks are also devoid of cars so not sure how people are getting there

I'm unsure how current demand for a train service along the NDL to Gatwick can be evaluated if, erm, there are no services to Gatwick.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm unsure how current demand for a train service along the NDL to Gatwick can be evaluated if, erm, there are no services to Gatwick.

The discussion above appears to indicate that they are evaluating the operational aspects of the timetable rather than the demand.

 

[Bald Rick]

The discussion above appears to indicate that they are evaluating the operational aspects of the timetable rather than the demand.

Is the right answer

 

[infobleep]

Average of 230 flights last August but deeper issue is people still avoiding trains to get to the airport although the long term car parks are also devoid of cars so not sure how people are getting there

Perhaps people are avoiding the trains because they are not running all the way to Gatwick Airport. If you have suitcases, you might prefer not to have to change from platform 0 to platform 3 at Redhill. I appreciate there is a lift, if people are happy to use such a thing at this time..