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3rd rail vs OHLE

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mike57

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There is *no way* that the Trans Pennine routes are going to be electrified using anything other than 25kv OHLE.

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I agree, but because of cost only the main route via Huddersfeild will be electrified in all probabilty. That means Bi-mode or deisel under the wires remains, as well as the issue of diversions. If for the same cost you could cover all the remaining routes, i.e Calder Valley as well as Leeds Bradford Interchange then you might be better off, but I agree it will not happen
 
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A0

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The GN suburbans have ever since introduction had issues with trains not changing over satisfactorily at Drayton Park, or trackside issues there causing them to have to divert to Kings Cross.

Not sure that's right - I thought the issue there was (going back to the early days of the 313s) problems with the tripcock system which was still in place between Drayton Park and Moorgate. So they moved the tripcock check to Finsbury Park so as to allow a 'failed' train to run to Kings Cross, rather than finding out at Drayton Park and chucking out the passengers there.

Is there a way to do a voltage changeover check at Finsbury Park ? That's where you'd need to do it to divert to Kings Cross.
 

O L Leigh

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Not sure that's right - I thought the issue there was (going back to the early days of the 313s) problems with the tripcock system which was still in place between Drayton Park and Moorgate. So they moved the tripcock check to Finsbury Park so as to allow a 'failed' train to run to Kings Cross, rather than finding out at Drayton Park and chucking out the passengers there.

Is there a way to do a voltage changeover check at Finsbury Park ? That's where you'd need to do it to divert to Kings Cross.

If I recall correctly, voltage changeover on a Cl313 was simply a matter of dropping/raising the pan. If there was AC with the pan raised the unit would run on that, otherwise it would take DC through the shoes. Therefore there would be no way to check if the changeover would be successful unless the train was in contact with both systems. The first indication the driver would get of a problem would be a loss of the line light. I would imagine that modern trains would be broadly similar, except that the TMS may indicate a problem with raising the pan due to an ADD operation.
 

mr_jrt

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Not totally, because it seems the changeover point is the Achilles' Heel of such mixed systems. The GN suburbans have ever since introduction had issues with trains not changing over satisfactorily at Drayton Park, or trackside issues there causing them to have to divert to Kings Cross. Thameslink, exactly the same, there have been multiple reworks at Farringdon etc to try to minimise the disruption caused by a train failing to change over; in fact it was seriously stated that it was a mistake to build the change point there instead of at Kentish Town, where there are multiple platforms to allow running around failed changeovers.

It's not just overhead/third rail. I believe SNCF have comparable experiences at DC/AC overhead changeovers.
I think the real mistake was not building the Thameslink core as a four-track section when Holborn Viaduct was demolished. You would then have had a City Thameslink with 4 platforms. The Crossrail rebuild of Farringdon was another missed opportunity, as it was a prime opportunity to build more platforms to the west of the tracks where rails once ran and link through to Smithfield sidings. 1624975527315.png
 

A0

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I think the real mistake was not building the Thameslink core as a four-track section when Holborn Viaduct was demolished. You would then have had a City Thameslink with 4 platforms. The Crossrail rebuild of Farringdon was another missed opportunity, as it was a prime opportunity to build more platforms to the west of the tracks where rails once ran and link through to Smithfield sidings. View attachment 99046

But what would 4 platforms at City Thameslink have achieved / solved ? Once you got to Farringdon you were onto a twin track section to Kentish Town, and there's no practical way to increase that.

Also not sure I get your point about Farringdon either. Weren't the platforms effectively extended to the beginning of the Snow Hill tunnel when they were extended ? So where are you thinking other platforms could have been put ?
 

Taunton

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No matter what it’s perceived advantages you can no longer go around leaving unprotected high voltage conductors where they can be easily accessed by Johnny Q Public.
And yet the whole of the National Rail 3rd rail and London Underground systems can carry on as they are? Things are either acceptable, or they are not.

I suspect far more incidents are caused on the roads by the close proximity of vehicles and pedestrians. Yet new roads continue to be built with pavements, without issue. Likewise we accept high speed rail services passing platforms with passengers standing just a few feet away. That includes services timetabled to stop there, but if a bit late and for the railway's own convenience they run them nonstop past all the waiting crowd. No issue apparently there.
 

colchesterken

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What about the DLR system, is the side collector system fully insulated so if a trespasser/track worker touched the side collection system would they be safe
Looking at it of course you cannot get close up as the gear is opposite the platform it seems to not be big enough to have an insulator and wire inside?
 

zwk500

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What about the DLR system, is the side collector system fully insulated so if a trespasser/track worker touched the side collection system would they be safe
Looking at it of course you cannot get close up as the gear is opposite the platform it seems to not be big enough to have an insulator and wire inside?
I thought the DLR was a bottom-contact system? With the shielding, it's very hard to touch the live contact. Of course, changing to a bottom-contact system would be effectively impossible to do in a phased manner from the top-contact system in place.
 

swt_passenger

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I thought the DLR was a bottom-contact system? With the shielding, it's very hard to touch the live contact. Of course, changing to a bottom-contact system would be effectively impossible to do in a phased manner from the top-contact system in place.
It is bottom contact - and by many previous accounts it just doesn’t scale up to mainline speeds and high current requirements.
 

O L Leigh

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And yet the whole of the National Rail 3rd rail and London Underground systems can carry on as they are? Things are either acceptable, or they are not.

I suspect far more incidents are caused on the roads by the close proximity of vehicles and pedestrians. Yet new roads continue to be built with pavements, without issue. Likewise we accept high speed rail services passing platforms with passengers standing just a few feet away. That includes services timetabled to stop there, but if a bit late and for the railway's own convenience they run them nonstop past all the waiting crowd. No issue apparently there.

I'm sorry old fruit, but your argument is nonsensical. Existing schemes persist because they are counted as legacy systems that continue under grandfather rights. It's precisely the same reason why you're not required to upgrade your house every time the building regulations change. But the legislative landscape continues to change and evolve around it and things that were OK in the past are no longer so. That's not something that's up for discussion; it simply is so.

Parallels with road safety are meaningless because road users (including pedestrians) operate within a different legal structure to rail users and those coming into contact with the railway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

What about the DLR system, is the side collector system fully insulated so if a trespasser/track worker touched the side collection system would they be safe
Looking at it of course you cannot get close up as the gear is opposite the platform it seems to not be big enough to have an insulator and wire inside?

I'm not sure we need to get into reinventing the wheel all over again.
 

A0

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And yet the whole of the National Rail 3rd rail and London Underground systems can carry on as they are? Things are either acceptable, or they are not.

Not quite - that something which exists is unsafe doesn't automatically mean it must be immediately replaced, simply that you can't use it for new installations. In a domestic situation the move from 2 pin to 3 pin plugs would be an example. The regs changed in 1970 but householders didn't have to wholesale replace them with 3 pin but new builds or re-wires had to be 3 pin.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I suspect far more incidents are caused on the roads by the close proximity of vehicles and pedestrians. Yet new roads continue to be built with pavements, without issue.

Probably so - but in terms of likelihood of serious injury or death it is almost certain if you come into contact with 750v DC con rail but with a car it'll depend on other factors, speed being one.

And roads are being built to better safety standards than they were 30 years ago with requirements for safe pedestrian crossing, safe cycling and separation of pedestrians and road vehicles clearly defined.
 

WesternBiker

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Not totally, because it seems the changeover point is the Achilles' Heel of such mixed systems. The GN suburbans have ever since introduction had issues with trains not changing over satisfactorily at Drayton Park, or trackside issues there causing them to have to divert to Kings Cross. Thameslink, exactly the same, there have been multiple reworks at Farringdon etc to try to minimise the disruption caused by a train failing to change over; in fact it was seriously stated that it was a mistake to build the change point there instead of at Kentish Town, where there are multiple platforms to allow running around failed changeovers.

It's not just overhead/third rail. I believe SNCF have comparable experiences at DC/AC overhead changeovers.

I don't know about its reliability, but the Metro North New Haven line in New York makes the 3rd rail to AC overhead (and vice-versa) changeovers at linespeed - quite spectacular to watch. The 3rd rail system is under-contact.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Arguments we have put before, but I may as well have another shot again.

A key upside of 3rd rail is that it is so easy, and cheap, to install. I saw the installation of it on Stratford-North Woolwich one weekend in the 1980s. I don't know if they did the whole lot in one Sunday, but it looked possible. One works train, ground crew, screw pots in, drop 3rd rail onto pots, on to the next length. Try that with 25kV, GWML lot. Notably it was a (onetime) Eastern Region crew from Chesterton Junction, Cambridge, pw yard doing it, so not a lot of background 3rd rail experience either.

Much is made of the additional lineside substations. But a 12-car overhead emu had three substations, one under each motor coach, and all the hoopla of pantographs, transformers, rectifiers, etc on board each one. Lineside substations are so straightforward compared to putting them on the rolling stock.


It seems this is known only too well. The lineside cabling for the DLR extension Canning Town to Stratford International was stolen before it was switched on - twice! But not since.
Spot on limiting factor we had on SR electrification schemes was we had access to one LWRT which can hold 3200Yds of 150lB of conductor rail. Easily unloaded in an overnight possession and installed over the next four nights but we could have gone faster had we access to more LWRTs but they had to support running rail drops as well.

To be fair though modern three phase EMU's have the same traction inverters under them now whether AC or DC but the latter don't need to cart around a transformer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I'm sorry old fruit, but your argument is nonsensical. Existing schemes persist because they are counted as legacy systems that continue under grandfather rights. It's precisely the same reason why you're not required to upgrade your house every time the building regulations change. But the legislative landscape continues to change and evolve around it and things that were OK in the past are no longer so. That's not something that's up for discussion; it simply is so.

Parallels with road safety are meaningless because road users (including pedestrians) operate within a different legal structure to rail users and those coming into contact with the railway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==



I'm not sure we need to get into reinventing the wheel all over again.
Electricity at Work Regulations did for third rail back in the 1990's and on the face of it top contact third rail looks excessively dangerous but that's just not borne out by the facts on workforce and public injuries vs overhead line. So whilst its never going to be permitted for any new standalone installations there is a case to be made that extension to Uckfield is the only viable option to decarbonise that route. I wouldn't advocate that for Ashford to Hastings as its practical now to extend 25kV from Ashford same as Reading to Basingstoke. So that would leave North Downs Line as the only other route that infill with third rail should be allowed. The other option that could be contemplated is with battery powered trains is to remove con rail in platforms and use battery power in station vicinity as that's where most trespass events occur.
 
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Taunton

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And roads are being built to better safety standards than they were 30 years ago
Tell that one to the "Smart Motorway" detractors, and journalists, writing about removing motorway hard shoulders to get more capacity on the cheap.

If you want a railway example, look at stripping out seats from suburban trains to get more capacity by standing. Safer than seated?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I thought the DLR was a bottom-contact system? With the shielding, it's very hard to touch the live contact.
It's very easy. Because with bottom contact the collector shoes have to point upwards. They are of course live on both sides of the train, so when boarding there's the live shoes pointing up at you on the platform side from the bogies.
 

Bald Rick

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Thank you for clarifying - so if we were to compare two similar length lines (let's use Victoria - Brighton and St Pancras - Bedford) as an example where one is OHLE and the other 3rd rail - do they (or conceptually could they) both have the same number of connections onto the National Grid ?

If they carried broadly the same amount of traffic, yes.

And the 33kv cables - not required for OHL, as these are at ground level do they have an attraction to the metal fairies or do they know better than to even try to take those out ?

They know better. And they are not always trackside.

What's the typical result of too many trains entering that particular section? Low power / go slow? Has this happened a lot?

Power trips out, and the whole section is dead. Typically requires a train by train restart - if everything sets off at the same time it will go again. Happens occasionally, south end of ECML and GEML inside Shenfield were both particularly prone until the upgrades.

As I described above, 25kV supporters go on about lineside substations but then forget about substations under each motor coach.

I think you mean (usually) one transformer per unit. Plenty of trials have motor coaches without transformers.

And yet the whole of the National Rail 3rd rail and London Underground systems can carry on as they are? Things are either acceptable, or they are not.

My sister’s house doesn’t have proper foundations, double glazing or any form of insulation. Is that acceptable or not?
 

Annetts key

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Network Rail have admitted that their stats, which led them to claiming a few years ago that third rail was eight times more dangerous than overhead ac, are unreliable.

And that eight times figure was a subjective weighted index which gave undue weight to injuries, even minor ones like a sprained foot from tripping on a third rail. All contact with AC leads to death. Contact with DC is often survivable. So unfair to assessment of third rail.
The network rail stats are not reliable enough to judge. They have been told to reassess the issue.

Versus 25 Kv, for non 110 mph lines & heavy freight, tried & tested third rail is far cheaper to build, cheap to run & probably as safe. And it is fast to build. We need more electrification now.

So important national decisions on third rail or 25kv should be left to guards & platform staff only?

Guards and platform staff?

What about the permanent way track patrol teams?
The permanent way maintenance gangs?
The S&T maintenance teams?
The S&T fault teams?
Telecoms staff?
The off-track teams?
The MOMs?
Train drivers?

Or indeed any of the other various railway staff that normally are lineside?

The railways have to comply with the laws of this country, plus work within the various railway standards and instructions. Failure to do so would have the ORR serving improvement orders or worse.

Plus all the staff who work on electrified lines need training and then continued demonstration that they retain the knowledge. The training is different for third rail compared to OHL.

Oh, and you know full well that ordinary workers do not get hardly any, if any input into any decisions on changes to the infrastructure…

The reality is that despite OHL maybe being more expensive, the long term benefits and the political views mean this is the only electrification system that will be installed new, except maybe for some new ‘short’ extensions to the existing 3rd rail system.
 

Taunton

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The likelihood is that train staff, civils, S&T, etc on the likes of Oxted to Uckfield, Hastings to Ashford, all the odd intermediate bits between Reading and Redhill, etc, already spend the majority of their time on 3rd rail lines anyway. Let's stop inventing problems where none exist.
 

A0

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Tell that one to the "Smart Motorway" detractors, and journalists, writing about removing motorway hard shoulders to get more capacity on the cheap.

If you want a railway example, look at stripping out seats from suburban trains to get more capacity by standing. Safer than seated?

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Your comment was about pedestrians and motorists, last time I checked pedestrians and footpaths weren't on motorways, so a comment on Smart motorways is an irrelevant bit of "whataboutery".

Ironically the new trains probably *are* safer - there is more standing room so people aren't crush loaded, there are proper grab rails and the seat spacing is more uniform. That's before you look at the structure of the train. If I were ever to be on a train involved in an accidemt, I'd prefer to be on a modern unit like a 700 than a 455, VEP or EPB.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Electricity at Work Regulations did for third rail back in the 1990's and on the face of it top contact third rail looks excessively dangerous but that's just not borne out by the facts on workforce and public injuries vs overhead line.
Would you care to evidence the bit in bold?

Because surely the key difference is to come into contact with OHLE you have to be doing something incredibly stupid like climbing on top of a train or waving a long metal object nearby. Whereas it is possible to trip over a 3rd rail or just brush against it.
 

O L Leigh

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Let's stop inventing problems where none exist.

Do you know that we were having pretty much this same discussion this time last year? Such is the cyclical nature of this forum that the feeling of deja vu never quite leaves you. Click.

The problem that we have, and the reason why RSSB were setting themselves up a consultation on such matters, is that the ORR has a presumption against the extension of the CRE network and to overcome that some new thoughts are clearly needed to see whether or not there is a way forward and a future for this method of electrification. As I have said, the legislative and regulatory landscape has changed and there are now some very large barriers to overcome if CRE is going to expand. Just carrying on as we were is simply not possible.

So no, we're not inventing problems where none exist.
 

mr_jrt

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But what would 4 platforms at City Thameslink have achieved / solved ? Once you got to Farringdon you were onto a twin track section to Kentish Town, and there's no practical way to increase that.

Also not sure I get your point about Farringdon either. Weren't the platforms effectively extended to the beginning of the Snow Hill tunnel when they were extended ? So where are you thinking other platforms could have been put ?
What it would have solved was that if a train failed to change over at City Thameslink it could be terminated in a platform with following trains able to route around it instead of having to turn everybody out and run into Smithfield sidings to reverse, with all the conflicting movements that entials. They could also have been used for normal terminating services instead of doing so at Blackfriars, and had they gone further and been built at Farringdon, passengers on the terminating services could then have fed directly onto Crossrail and the Met.

As shown on the diagram I posted, the Smithfield sidings are but a small relic of the GN goods station that used to sit under where the new Farringdon ticket hall now lives. Had the opportunity been taken when the whole area was being redeveloped to build another 2 or three platforms west of the existing ones and link through to Smithfield sidings, then Thameslink metro services could have terminated at Farringdon instead of in the Blackfriars bays, and pre-Crossrail, possibly through to Moorgate (which could have been a use for a four-track Snow Hill). Crossrail is a better solution to linking to Moorgate though, so DC services from the south terminating at Farringdon in centre roads would have been fine in my book.
 

O L Leigh

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Electricity at Work Regulations did for third rail back in the 1990's and on the face of it top contact third rail looks excessively dangerous but that's just not borne out by the facts on workforce and public injuries vs overhead line.

Regrettably the higher risk posed by CRE is reflected in the statistics. If you follow the link included in my previous post to a thread from last year you will find them stated there. I’ll repost them here if I can.

**EDIT**

They’re in tabulated form which I can’t copy and paste on my phone, but they are listed in post #85.
 

apk55

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When the decision to go for third rail electrification was originally made in the 1920s the situation was different to the present day requirements. Trains were mostly shorter, made of lighter weight stock, did not include air con and worked to much slower timetables. Therefore the power requirements were much lower probably not much more than 1MW per train. In a lot of cases sub stations were placed close to maximum distance apart of 3 to 4 miles as at the time they they were large structures with rotary converters, although by the 1930s mercury arc rectifiers had become available.
Now with heavier faster modern stock ideally we require around 4MW per train and to do this requires substations at 1 to 2 miles apart. They have also raised the the line voltage from 650V to 850V which also helps. However the voltage drop to a train on full power between two substations is quite significant (often as much as 20%) and represent a lot of inefficiency. It is also very difficult to detect fault condiions on system like this as the maximum current in service may be no higher than that drawn by a power arc.

I think what made the development of 50Hz 25KV electrification practical was the development of the semiconductor rectifier diode in the late 50s and 60s. This meant that robust DC series motors could be used. It is also much easier to upgrade an AC power system as substations are often not placed at the maximum distance apart but rather where there was a suitable grid connection. It can also handle train loads of 10 or 12MW without problems.
 

59CosG95

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When the decision to go for third rail electrification was originally made in the 1920s the situation was different to the present day requirements. Trains were mostly shorter, made of lighter weight stock, did not include air con and worked to much slower timetables. Therefore the power requirements were much lower probably not much more than 1MW per train. In a lot of cases sub stations were placed close to maximum distance apart of 3 to 4 miles as at the time they they were large structures with rotary converters, although by the 1930s mercury arc rectifiers had become available.
Now with heavier faster modern stock ideally we require around 4MW per train and to do this requires substations at 1 to 2 miles apart. They have also raised the the line voltage from 650V to 850V which also helps. However the voltage drop to a train on full power between two substations is quite significant (often as much as 20%) and represent a lot of inefficiency. It is also very difficult to detect fault condiions on system like this as the maximum current in service may be no higher than that drawn by a power arc.

I think what made the development of 50Hz 25KV electrification practical was the development of the semiconductor rectifier diode in the late 50s and 60s. This meant that robust DC series motors could be used. It is also much easier to upgrade an AC power system as substations are often not placed at the maximum distance apart but rather where there was a suitable grid connection. It can also handle train loads of 10 or 12MW without problems.
The upgrades for an AC system are also much wider in choice, considering the type of grid connection (DNO/NG), the voltage (33kV with SFC, 132kV, 275kV (not sure if a 275kV grid connection has been made, but you never know!), 400kV) and the traction current return (Return Conductor, RC + Booster Transformers, 'Classic Feeding' with Earth Wire and Return Screening Conductor, ±25kV Autotransformer/Auxiliary Feeding). Certainly with AT feeding, feeder stations can be spaced further apart (esp. if 400kV grid connections are used). SFCs are useful as they eliminate any phase imbalance in the DNO supply.

3rd rail just seems to be 'add more substations' - but then again, I've specialised in AC...
 

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Sorry being a bit late to the discussion. Going back to the LBSCR overhead / LSWR 3rd rail matters, I remember reading years ago that some LBSC steam footplate crew had suffered some fatalities and accidents with fire irons coming into contact with overhead lines. That was one of the deciding factors of the Southern Railway adopting 3rd rail.
 

zwk500

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Sorry being a bit late to the discussion. Going back to the LBSCR overhead / LSWR 3rd rail matters, I remember reading years ago that some LBSC steam footplate crew had suffered some fatalities and accidents with fire irons coming into contact with overhead lines. That was one of the deciding factors of the Southern Railway adopting 3rd rail.
And it's still a risk for Steam working under 25KV today.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The upgrades for an AC system are also much wider in choice, considering the type of grid connection (DNO/NG), the voltage (33kV with SFC, 132kV, 275kV (not sure if a 275kV grid connection has been made, but you never know!), 400kV) and the traction current return (Return Conductor, RC + Booster Transformers, 'Classic Feeding' with Earth Wire and Return Screening Conductor, ±25kV Autotransformer/Auxiliary Feeding). Certainly with AT feeding, feeder stations can be spaced further apart (esp. if 400kV grid connections are used). SFCs are useful as they eliminate any phase imbalance in the DNO supply.

3rd rail just seems to be 'add more substations' - but then again, I've specialised in AC...
ECML has had several additional feeder stations added to it since it was first electrified although I acknowledge that to upgrade DC requires many more infeeds per mile in the form of new substations. However, converting OLE to an AT systems isn't without alot of line side infrastructure being needed as well additional feeder wires or miles of cabling that has been installed on ECML as well as being a lot more disruptive so in capital costs not a lot of difference. That said the availability of SFC's is a game changer as in my day (1980's AC electrifications) we were stuck with where the grid would allow a connection whereas on the DC side we just ran a 33kV cable to the local DNO 33kV substation.

We all know that the Southern Region DC system is certainly not the most efficient way of delivering the higher power demands that modern trains need but re-electrification at 25kV would be a monumental task, be highly disruptive and will never pay itself back so adding additional substations is the least cost solution. Its unfortunate that the various trials that were conducted with stainless steel capped aluminium rail didn't prove to be reliable although the Underground have made a success of it as that would have helped with reducing losses. We also reviewed improving the conductivity of steel running rail but that made it softer and more difficult to manage without breakage with very little improvement.

Also in the totality of how much inefficiency 3rd rail is responsible for across UK energy consumption its negligible. Maybe when every domestic house is 5 star BREAM standard we need to have a rethink.
 

gallafent

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Tell that one to the "Smart Motorway" detractors, and journalists, writing about removing motorway hard shoulders to get more capacity on the cheap.
Turns out that smart motorways are actually safer than dumb ones, of course, with some careful and thoughtful analysis of the data. That's too subtle and factual for many headline-writers though. There's a section about it (which starts at 08:05) in this episode of More or Less (BBC radio 4) — not aware of transcripts of these available anywhere online, unfortunately.

 

O L Leigh

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Quoted from @hwl from here.

Some data from the tables to inform discussion:

(Average) Events per yearOHLE3rd rail3rd rail : OHLE ratio
Passenger stock @ station0.06671.710925.65
Workforce arcing1.08572.42162.23
Workforce shock1.44173.79372.63
Adult trespasser1.695.63
Child trespasser1.542910.65
Other Public0.42860.10770.25

Risk weighted FWI (average/year)OHLE3rd rail3rd rail : OHLE ratio
Passenger stock @ station0.00750.8477113.03
Workforce arcing0.02370.05282.23
Workforce shock0.25820.39221.52
Adult trespasser0.65336.20979.51
Child trespasser0.24620.40241.63
Other Public0.04740.06811.44
 

A0

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Sorry being a bit late to the discussion. Going back to the LBSCR overhead / LSWR 3rd rail matters, I remember reading years ago that some LBSC steam footplate crew had suffered some fatalities and accidents with fire irons coming into contact with overhead lines. That was one of the deciding factors of the Southern Railway adopting 3rd rail.

BIB - it wasn't.

The key factors were economic, bearing in mind this was the 1920s and 1930s.

So - you had a much larger 3rd rail network on the LSWR than the overhead network of the LBSC. And the SECR who had been looking at 3kv DC OHL hadn't electrified anything.

DC 3rd rail was simpler, quicker and cheaper to install - you can add in much of the AC kit of the time originated in Germany or Switzerland, this was immediately post WW1, so buying German wasn't viewed particularly favourably.

Lastly, the chairman of the newly formed Southern Railway was the former General Manager of the LSWR.

You can also look at the other electrification schemes which were being considered at the time - the NER had been looking at 1500v DC OHL for the East Coast mainline between York and Newcastle. The LNER of course approved the use of 1500v DC OHL for Woodhead and Liverpool St - Shenfield etc. The GWR were looking at 3000v DC OHL.
 
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