397 and 390 timings on north WCML

[glasgowniteowl]

I'm currently travelling home on my late running 1s72 from Warrington, I found it quite interesting to note that my train and the avanti in front, both have a transpennine 397 in front of us, and even with the speed limit differential between the two class of trains, the 397s seem to be holding their own, neither of the two avanti trains have lost any extra time despite being stuck behind them all the way from Preston to at least Carstairs junction

Seems the acceleration on the 397 is making up for the higher speed on the 390 at least in these northern sections of the wcml

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I did a round trip on Tuesday Warrington-Edinburgh, out on an 11-car 390, and back on a 397 (to Manchester), both running nicely to time.
The 397 never did faster than 110mph (if my phone GPS is to be believed), and often lower than that.
The 397 did stop additionally at Lockerbie and Penrith (both at Oxenholme), and the 397 took 10 minutes longer then the 390 between Edinburgh and Preston.
So maybe there's not much in it, but I'd expect the 390 to cope with delays better.
It was very good to travel round Carstairs at a steady 40mph instead of the old crawl, and there was no delay at Slateford northbound as there usually is.
The 397 did not have the silky ride of the 390, but it was better than I expected at 110mph on the WCML - worse on the slower Cobbinshaw route.

 

[LYuen]

Isn't class 397 also capable of doing 125mph, or is there a slower permitted speed for non-tilting trains?
If it is the latter, does that mean Avanti 805 and 807 will have the same restrictions as 397 on WCML?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Isn't class 397 also capable of doing 125mph, or is there a slower permitted speed for non-tilting trains?

Indeed, limited by infrastructure like how the 390 can't go 140 due to signalling.

If it is the latter, does that mean Avanti 805 and 807 will have the same restrictions as 397 on WCML?

Yep, some timetables have already been reduced for the 805 and 807 to take over (e.g. some Liverpool - Euston journeys)

 

[sjm77]

Yep, some timetables have already been reduced for the 805 and 807 to take over (e.g. some Liverpool - Euston journeys)

Yes indeed, realtime trains shows them as 'pathed as Class 80x on electric at 125mph'. Which is interesting in itself, usually on the WCML it is only the tilting Pendo's and Voyagers that are permitted above 110 mph.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Yes indeed, realtime trains shows them as 'pathed as Class 80x on electric at 125mph'. Which is interesting in itself, usually on the WCML it is only the tilting Pendo's and Voyagers that are permitted above 110 mph.

There are small portions of the WCML which have 125mph without tilt already.

 

[sjm77]

There are small portions of the WCML which have 125mph without tilt already.

I was only aware of Wolverhampton - Stafford where non-tilting stock can run at 125 mph

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I was only aware of Wolverhampton - Stafford where non-tilting stock can run at 125 mph

There's also a stretch between Rugby and Coventry.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't class 397 also capable of doing 125mph, or is there a slower permitted speed for non-tilting trains?
If it is the latter, does that mean Avanti 805 and 807 will have the same restrictions as 397 on WCML?

Non-tilting trains are limited to the same PS limits as other trains, 110mph max, on the WCML.
Tilting trains (390, 221) can use EPS speeds up to 125mph.
A new MU speed profile is being introduced south of Weaver Jn to allow multiple unit speeds higher than 110mph in places, but still not up to the full EPS 125mph profile of 390/221 trains over the same distances, hence these trains will be slower overall.
The MU profile will be used by 805/807 trains when they start running, but won't apply north of Weaver Jn (ie to Preston, Carlisle, Glasgow).
The intention was to extend the 125mph MU profile northwards for HS2 (also non-tilt) trains, which would also cover 80x and 397, but it's anybody's guess where that plan lies now.
The 125mph differential speed profile for tilting Voyagers will be withdrawn when the MU change comes in, so that there will still be just 3 speed profiles on the WCML (currently these are PS, EPS (390) and EPS (221) profiles, and in the future will be PS, MU and EPS (390).

Another slight oddity is that EPS speeds are controlled by the TASS control system on the track and on board 390/221 trains, while the MU speeds over 110mph will not be.

 

[The Planner]

Yes indeed, realtime trains shows them as 'pathed as Class 80x on electric at 125mph'. Which is interesting in itself, usually on the WCML it is only the tilting Pendo's and Voyagers that are permitted above 110 mph.

Ignore that, it just shows the maximum speed of the traction. You could time a 807 between Wolves and New St where it doesn't go above 75mph and it would say the same thing.