385 Power Output

[Lewis Acott]

Is what is says on the tin,
I can't find it anywhere, what is the power output of Scotrail's class 385?
I'm assuming it will be broadly similar to their 380s but may be wrong...

 

[hexagon789]

Is what is says on the tin,
I can't find it anywhere, what is the power output of Scotrail's class 385?
I'm assuming it will be broadly similar to their 380s but may be wrong...

250kW (335hp) per motor according to Hitachi. Which is exactly the same as a 380 - those are 1,000kW per motor car so 250kW a motor.

 

[hexagon789]

I should add that AFAIK both 3 and 4-car 380s have a total of 8 motors (4 powered bogies), while I believe the 385s have six motors in a 3-car and eight in a 4-car.

 

[380101]

I should add that AFAIK both 3 and 4-car 380s have a total of 8 motors (4 powered bogies), while I believe the 385s have six motors in a 3-car and eight in a 4-car.

Yes, 4 powered bogies for 380/0 and 380/1 so the 380/0 are a bit quicker off the blocks than a 385/0. The 385/0 have 1 un-powered bogie to save weight - a whole 1.5tons!

 

[Highlandspring]

The information I have shows a max power consumption of 2965kW and a max tractive effort of 2400kW but it doesn't specify whether that's for a 3 or 4 car unit.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, 4 powered bogies for 380/0 and 380/1 so the 380/0 are a bit quicker off the blocks than a 385/0. The 385/0 have 1 un-powered bogie to save weight - a whole 1.5tons!

You'd have thought they'd have accepted having an extra 1.5 tons to give uniformity in terms of number of motors and better performance with the 3-car sets which will primarily because used in future on more frequently stopping services.

The information I have shows a max power consumption of 2965kW and a max tractive effort of 2400kW but it doesn't specify whether that's for a 3 or 4 car unit.

As tractive effort is usually expressed as either lbf or kN, I suspect 2400kW is the continuous power rating and 2965kW the maximum power output rather than maximum power consumption.

 

[snookertam]

Reading the posts above would I be right in concluding that the class 385/1 have powered bogies in one of the centre carriages? EDIT: Wait no, that's not what's being said. If anything, the power to weight ratio is similar in the 3 & 4 cars, whereas in the 380s the power to weight ratio reduces in the 4 car units.

What I've noticed with the class 380s is that, with only the two outer cars having traction motors in both 3 and 4 car units, the 3 cars are noticeably quicker off the mark. The 4 car units seem quite cumbersome in comparison.

 

[hexagon789]

Reading the posts above would I be right in concluding that the class 385/1 have powered bogies in one of the centre carriages? EDIT: Wait no, that's not what's being said. If anything, the power to weight ratio is similar in the 3 & 4 cars, whereas in the 380s the power to weight ratio reduces in the 4 car units.

What I've noticed with the class 380s is that, with only the two outer cars having traction motors in both 3 and 4 car units, the 3 cars are noticeably quicker off the mark. The 4 car units seem quite cumbersome in comparison.

For the 380s, on both variants both bogies of the driving cars are motored.

For the 385s, on the 4-cars both bogies on the driving cars are motored but on the 3-car on driving car has only one motor bogie with the other having two.

On both 380s and 385s the intermediate cars are all unmotored trailers.

 

[380101]

Reading the posts above would I be right in concluding that the class 385/1 have powered bogies in one of the centre carriages? EDIT: Wait no, that's not what's being said. If anything, the power to weight ratio is similar in the 3 & 4 cars, whereas in the 380s the power to weight ratio reduces in the 4 car units.

What I've noticed with the class 380s is that, with only the two outer cars having traction motors in both 3 and 4 car units, the 3 cars are noticeably quicker off the mark. The 4 car units seem quite cumbersome in comparison.

aye, the 4 car 380 is a good bit slower accelerarion wise than the 3 car. 0-60mph in 39s for the 3 car and almost a minute for the 4 car! The extra 42ton of the trailer open standard toilet (TOSL) makes all the difference

 

[hexagon789]

aye, the 4 car 380 is a good bit slower accelerarion wise than the 3 car. 0-60mph in 39s for the 3 car and almost a minute for the 4 car! The extra 42ton of the trailer open standard toilet (TOSL) makes all the difference

Indeed it seems a 3-car 380 is a very punchy 20.5hp per ton, while a 4-car is 16.3hp per ton.

 

[snookertam]

aye, the 4 car 380 is a good bit slower accelerarion wise than the 3 car. 0-60mph in 39s for the 3 car and almost a minute for the 4 car! The extra 42ton of the trailer open standard toilet (TOSL) makes all the difference

On the Cathcart routes that can actually make a difference, the stations are only about 60-90 seconds apart and whilst the speed limits on the route are around 35-50mph in most places, it makes the 4 cars seem pretty sluggish between stations. I think some drivers don't even manage to reach linespeed with them.

 

[hexagon789]

314s, perhaps because of their 75mph gearing, are very good at getting up to linespeed between stations on the Circle.

They are pretty poor over about 45-50mph though.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

314s, perhaps because of their 75mph gearing, are very good at getting up to linespeed between stations on the Circle.

They are pretty poor over about 45-50mph though.

Another reason would be their DC motors, which accelerate much quicker than AC at lower speeds. The same applies to 318 and 320 units, although their higher gearing (90/100 mph) hurts acceleration.

 

[hexagon789]

Another reason would be their DC motors, which accelerate much quicker than AC at lower speeds. The same applies to 318 and 320 units, although their higher gearing (90/100 mph) hurts acceleration.

Same applies with the 90mph-geared 318s/320s, never seem to have an issue reaching the speed limit between stops on either the Circle or Glasgow Low Level lines, but then on the underground sections again the speed limit is again typically 30-40mph.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

Same applies with the 90mph-geared 318s/320s, never seem to have an issue reaching the speed limit between stops on either the Circle or Glasgow Low Level lines, but then on the underground sections again the speed limit is again typically 30-40mph.

My experience has been that they're still slower than the PEPs.

 

[hexagon789]

My experience has been that they're still slower than the PEPs.

At lower speeds yes - the 314s shoot off like rockets despite only 880 horses under the bonnet.

 

[snookertam]

We'll miss the 314s for that reason. Was on a six car Neilston working earlier which was going like a whippet. I gather 385s have pretty decent acceleration so we'll see soon enough how they match up.

 

[hexagon789]

We'll miss the 314s for that reason. Was on a six car Neilston working earlier which was going like a whippet. I gather 385s have pretty decent acceleration so we'll see soon enough how they match up.

The 314s are really good up to 30, but the performance really dies off then. Whereas with more modern ac-motored units the performance is more consistent up to higher speeds. That's my impression anyway.