380 in Britain NOW!

[Crossforth]

Nope. the 332s will be staying with Heathrow Express.

The 322s are in Scotland on a sub-lease from NXEA, and will definitely return there in March.[1]

[1] http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+322

Sorry that is what meant

 

[Bittern]

8 units diagrammed out? Is that in passenger service? And if so, where? And did it actually happen? The only info I've got from Scot-rail.co.uk so far implies that it's the same as last week so far, but I did overhear some staff talking about things getting better this week (or something else similarly vague).

I passed Corkerhill depot early in the evening and there were no 380s present. I passed it again just after 22:00 and the place was full of them. I'm sure at least some of them would've been in passenger service.

Also worth noting one was at Shields as well.

 

[The Engineer]

I passed Corkerhill depot early in the evening and there were no 380s present. I passed it again just after 22:00 and the place was full of them. I'm sure at least some of them would've been in passenger service.

Also worth noting one was at Shields as well.

8 units are out working in passenger service during the day, stabled at Corkerhill or Ayr during the night. I think they're on lower mileage diagrams that finish after the evening peaks.

The other 2 working units were on Shields Depot for attention.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

8 units diagrammed out? Is that in passenger service? And if so, where? And did it actually happen?

Yes, diagrammed on Ayrshire coast workings. Four off, seven-car trains in service.

 

[route101]

Have they done the Cathcart Circle yet in passenger service?

 

[MacCookie]

Have they done the Cathcart Circle yet in passenger service?

Nope.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

8 units are out working in passenger service during the day, stabled at Corkerhill or Ayr during the night. I think they're on lower mileage diagrams that finish after the evening peaks.

At the moment they are only using four sets in passenger service at any one time. And AFAIA, they're only working part of existing 318/334 diagrams during the peaks.

Ewan

 

[me123]

Thought there were only 4 in passenger service. Although I was rather excited at the thought of 8.

 

[317 forever]

Although a handful of class 380s are apparently in service, I hope that they will concentrate at least initially on one route (potentially Glasgow Central - Ayr) to make it easy for us to locate one.

I am considering coming to Glasgow for the Spring Bank Holiday so it will be ideal if a batch are in regular service by then!

 

[route101]

Although a handful of class 380s are apparently in service, I hope that they will concentrate at least initially on one route (potentially Glasgow Central - Ayr) to make it easy for us to locate one.

I am considering coming to Glasgow for the Spring Bank Holiday so it will be ideal if a batch are in regular service by then!

If you come up to Glasgow the best bet for a 380 is the 1530 Glasgow Central to Ayr .

 

[RobShipway]

Has any date been given as to when the last class 380 is due to arrive in the UK?

 

[Damien1986]

Would you not agree that it's a relief that more class 380 units are now in service given the problems that occured when they first arrived?

 

[CarterUSM]

Would you not agree that it's a relief that more class 380 units are now in service given the problems that occured when they first arrived?

Yes, i would agree.

 

[rail-britain]

Would you not agree that it's a relief that more class 380 units are now in service given the problems that occured when they first arrived?

As at today, 22 out of the 38 have seen passenger use
380001 - 380009, 380011, 380012, 380101 - 380111
However, current diagrams are such that only less than three quarters see regular use, which doesn't give much confidence

 

[Peter Sarf]

Has any date been given as to when the last class 380 is due to arrive in the UK?

I would put my money on Tuesday 17th May 2011. Currently there are only 8 left to arrive (380018-022 then 114-116). Unfortunately the next pair did not appear at Dollands Moor on Saturday night 23rd April but they do sometimes still arrive at dollands Moor just in time for the usual Mondays 13:16 7X80 departure to Wembley yard then Polmadie (Tue am).

I get the feeling that France does not like moving the 380s on a Sunday !. I recall being told lorry movements are banned in France on Sundays which is why the UK Motorways in the SE are very busy Sunday afternoons feeding the cross channel ports.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

UPDATE. 380018 & 380019 did not make it through the hole in time for the planned (well usual-ish) 7X80 so 7X80 caped. They are new due off Dollands Moor on Wednesday 27th (as per the scot-rail site) but have not got through the hole yet !. You can hold your breath only for so long.

I wonder if the 379 deliveries are as variable as the 380 deliveries. I have not worried about the 379s as their destination is more convenient for me but I would be interested to know.

 

[Nym]

Do remember though that there are a lot of brand new systems on the 380 that havn't been used on a train in the UK before, the're made from proven tech, but the implementation still needs rigerous in service testing to make sure it works properly, and these are safety critical systems. Such as door controls etc.

 

[rail-britain]

Do remember though that there are a lot of brand new systems on the 380 that havn't been used on a train in the UK before, the're made from proven tech, but the implementation still needs rigerous in service testing to make sure it works properly, and these are safety critical systems. Such as door controls etc.

Many of the systems are already in use, with the Class 350
Transport Scotland however specified some ridiculous additional requirements which were new and untested, hence where the problems commenced, the existing systems had to be modified to accomodate these
Network Rail had also not completed all the stations modifications, so ironically it was just as well the initial deliveries were late
As an example I visited Langbank where Class 380 test runs were passing through, but were unable to test the SDO as the station modifications had still not been completed

 

[Nym]

Erm, the whole control harnessing system is different, it's 'fly by wire' digital interupt driven system on microcontrollers, rather than TVM or discrite wiring.

 

[MCR247]

Transport Scotland however specified some ridiculous additional requirements

Like what?

 

[rail-britain]

Like what?

See the Class 380 specification on their website, then compare to the Class 350, it is a ridiculous list
Even in the beginning some people wonder why they wanted or needed such things
Just starting from the exterior is obvious enough
The coaches are longer but the electrical consumption was to be reduced by at least 15%
Even the consultants and suppliers were suggesting a more traditional unit with 3, 4 and 5 coach options
It is then no wonder why you can hear a Class 380 from over 5 miles away

The proposal prior to the order even included double deck saloons!

 

[cj_1985]

personally i dont understand why they decided to order 23m carraiges...
ok well i kind of understand wanting to fit as many people into each unit as possible...

BUT... now scotrail are landed with a unit that can only be used on certain routes... compared to the 314/318/320/322/334 fleets that with 20 (ish) metre carraiges could in theory fit and operate along most/all electrified routes.

with the class 380 they have an intercity length unit to serve routes that for the most part are suburband or less than 100 miles one way trip

add to that, that the new airdrie to bathgate route was built to accomodate 20/21 metre units... and tha class 380s (last i checked) were barred from operating on the route.

yes more seats per train is good... but it removes some theoretical flexiblity...
ie. with the class 320s being certified for 90mph running they could theoretically be used on (provided drivers had the correct training) glasgow to lanark serices in place of class 318 or class 334 units...

 

[rail-britain]

personally i dont understand why they decided to order 23m carraiges
now scotrail are landed with a unit that can only be used on certain routes... compared to the 314/318/320/322/334 fleets that with 20 (ish) metre carraiges could in theory fit and operate along most/all electrified routes.
with the class 380 they have an intercity length unit to serve routes that for the most part are suburband or less than 100 miles one way trip

Over time the 23m coach will become standard
The Class 380 is a test-bed for the next order for units on EGIP, these units being almost identical but rated at 125mph
At the moment Glasgow QS can cope with 6 car Class 170 units, also 23m in length

 

[CarterUSM]

All the diesel routes are also run by 23 metre long carriage units.

 

[cj_1985]

Over time the 23m coach will become standard
The Class 380 is a test-bed for the next order for units on EGIP, these units being almost identical but rated at 125mph
At the moment Glasgow QS can cope with 6 car Class 170 units, also 23m in length

well thats fair enough... but it/they are one hell of an expensive restricted test bed

without the expensive station/platform and route adjustments to allow 23 metre carraiges to be used across all of the ScotRail electric network they are stuck with units that are restricted to certain routes in the short to medium term

 

[rail-britain]

All the diesel routes are also run by 23 metre long carriage units.

Also the vast majority to be replaced by 23m EMUs in due course, it's going to feel like a really short 10 years!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

without the expensive station/platform and route adjustments to allow 23 metre carraiges to be used across all of the ScotRail electric network they are stuck with units that are restricted to certain routes in the short to medium term

23m coaches fit in perfectly well, the issue is that most stations were built around older designs of 3 or 6 coaches (such as Class 303 / 314, or 101 / 107)
It's time to move on and build some additional capacity, and this has now commenced
The Ayr Line and Western Clyde have been completed
On the Airdrie to Bathgate route there will rarely be trains longer than 6 coach trains operating, once the full timetable commences the route can eventually be swapped over to 4 coach Class 380s (or their replacement)
The same pretty much applies to all the other routes which will swap from Class 156 / 158 / 170 to the next generation of EMU
On other routes there will be little issue, as most services are operated by 3 coach units, so Class 380 units will be able to be utilised without any issue (such as the Cathcart routes)

 

[Bittern]

On the Airdrie to Bathgate route there will rarely be trains longer than 6 coach trains operating, once the full timetable commences the route can eventually be swapped over to 4 coach Class 380s (or their replacement) )

Although, interestingly, they designed the platforms so that they can be extended if necessary. For once, someone at the top thought ahead *cough*Larkhall!*cough*

 

[rail-britain]

For once, someone at the top thought ahead *cough*Larkhall!*cough*

What is right or wrong with Larkhall (sadly I've still not managed to visit this station)?
Presumably it can accept 3 or 4 car (Class 380) units, but not 6 car units
Equally, if a 6 car Class 380 unit was to be used, then the platform would need extending and/or the starter signals resiting, similar to Largs

 

[Bittern]

What is right or wrong with Larkhall (sadly I've still not managed to visit this station)?

The original platforms were on a curve as the line used to go onto Stonehouse and Strathven. When the line was reopened, the platforms were not built on a curve, instead built straight making it more difficult to extend the line because the platforms are in the way!

 

[CarterUSM]

The original platforms were on a curve as the line used to go onto Stonehouse and Strathven. When the line was reopened, the platforms were not built on a curve, instead built straight making it more difficult to extend the line because the platforms are in the way!

I know, I found this a surprising oversight at the time.

 

[MacCookie]

add to that, that the new airdrie to bathgate route was built to accomodate 20/21 metre units... and tha class 380s (last i checked) were barred from operating on the route.

I'm pretty sure that the new stations on A-B are all long enough for 6x23m units. The fact that 380s haven't been cleared on A-B yet has nothing to do with platform length.

Ewan

 

[rail-britain]

The original platforms were on a curve as the line used to go onto Stonehouse and Strathven. When the line was reopened, the platforms were not built on a curve, instead built straight making it more difficult to extend the line because the platforms are in the way!

Presumably there are issues with future extending beyond Larkhall, hence why the platforms are straight
Equally, if the line is extended then one of the platforms can remain in use whilst the other is demolished, unlike Drumgelloch which had to be closed

The same parallels exist in road building, the footprints were in place for extending the M8, M77, M74, and M80, yet none of these were used most were removed and rebuilt, and in the case of the M8 the one at the Kingston Bridge isn't even going to be used and left in place!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

add to that, that the new airdrie to bathgate route was built to accomodate 20/21 metre units... and tha class 380s (last i checked) were barred from operating on the route

As above, the route was built with Class 334 / 380 use taken into account and the Class 380 has not yet been added (there is little or no point, and the same applies on other routes)

The platforms are more than capable of coping with 3 or 6 car Class 380 units of 69 and 138 metres :
Airdrie P2 130 metres, P3 150 metres (P2 may have been extended since ROTR 2011)
Armadale 150 metres
Bathgate 150 metres
Blackridge 150 metres
Caldercruix 150 metres
Drumgelloch 150 metres
The main issue would be other stations on the route, clearly many would require extending
Equally, Glasgow QS LL is only 135 metres, but these could also be extended

Personally, I cannot see this being relevant unless more Class 380 units being ordered or cascaded which I think is very unlikely for at least the next 10 years

 

[junglejames]

I would put my money on Tuesday 17th May 2011. Currently there are only 8 left to arrive (380018-022 then 114-116). Unfortunately the next pair did not appear at Dollands Moor on Saturday night 23rd April but they do sometimes still arrive at dollands Moor just in time for the usual Mondays 13:16 7X80 departure to Wembley yard then Polmadie (Tue am).

I get the feeling that France does not like moving the 380s on a Sunday !. I recall being told lorry movements are banned in France on Sundays which is why the UK Motorways in the SE are very busy Sunday afternoons feeding the cross channel ports.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

UPDATE. 380018 & 380019 did not make it through the hole in time for the planned (well usual-ish) 7X80 so 7X80 caped. They are new due off Dollands Moor on Wednesday 27th (as per the scot-rail site) but have not got through the hole yet !. You can hold your breath only for so long.

I wonder if the 379 deliveries are as variable as the 380 deliveries. I have not worried about the 379s as their destination is more convenient for me but I would be interested to know.

Does anyone know if the 380s made it through the tunnel in time for tomorrow?