380 in Britain NOW!

[Damien1986]

No only some, some will remain on North Clyde routes to operate the Balloch-Airdrie service.
The plan however as Rail Britain commented is to have a mixture of 320 and 318s operating the Argyle Line services, with ONLY 334s on the Edinburgh-Helensburgh/Milngavie.

HOWEVER until enough 380s can be introduced into regular passenger service then the major cascade is slimming down until the 380s can be put in place.

So I take it the additional Sunday Christmas shopping services from Airdrie to Dalmuir and Springburn to Dalmuir services will be class 320 operated then?

 

[First ScotRail]

I have a funny feeling they will be operated by anything they can lay their hands on from December...

 

[Damien1986]

I have a funny feeling they will be operated by anything they can lay their hands on from December...

In other words they will use class 318 units,class 334 units,class 320 units etc?

 

[First ScotRail]

Yes, everything will be very up in the air until the 380s can be introduced and enough of them to allow the 334s to be fully moved to the north clyde line.

 

[rail-britain]

I have a funny feeling they will be operated by anything they can lay their hands on from December...

It's not that dire, during December there is only a shortfall of about six units
However, in order to commence the full A2B timetable this will require the complete acceptance of the Class 380 fleet to release the required number of Class 334 units

I should now later next week how this is progressing, after attending the Shields Road opening and service launch on the Tuesday (busy week next week)

 

[Damien1986]

Seeing as some class 380 units are currently out on route learning duties do you feel we might be seeing some of these new units sooner than we had planned!

 

[First ScotRail]

Latest estimates are that 2 units will enter service on 27th of November BUT this is permitting no further hitches and staff training going successfully.

No official launch until next year due to the problems being encountered, which I think is a wise move.

 

[MacCookie]

It's not that dire, during December there is only a shortfall of about six units
However, in order to commence the full A2B timetable this will require the complete acceptance of the Class 380 fleet to release the required number of Class 334 units

As has been posted to scot-rail: From the timetable change in December there are 23 Class 380 diagrams. These all need to be filled to allow enough 334s and 318s to be released from Ayrshire and Inverclyde. 318s transferring to the Argyle line, releasing more 334s. All 334s transferring to A-B and NEL. You could get away with less if ScotRail want to short form some services. The full fleet is not required until the end of March (but even then, short forming would mean that enough 380s could be made available to release the 322s back to NXEA).

I should now later next week how this is progressing, after attending the Shields Road opening and service launch on the Tuesday (busy week next week)

Nope. It was posted a week or two back on scot-rail that the official launch date had been pushed back to the end of the month. It was then posted this morning that it has been postponed until next year.

You also appear to be wrong with regards to official opening of Shields.

Regards,
Ewan

 

[Damien1986]

Latest estimates are that 2 units will enter service on 27th of November BUT this is permitting no further hitches and staff training going successfully.

No official launch until next year due to the problems being encountered, which I think is a wise move.

But the Airdrie to Bathgate will still open albeit with only Edinburgh to Helensburgh services and class 320 units cascading to Lanark/Carstairs/Coatbridge/Larkhall/Motherwell-Dalmuir/Milngavie services and do you think we may see the occasional class 318 unit on the Airdrie to Bathgate line?

 

[MacCookie]

But the Airdrie to Bathgate will still open albeit with only Edinburgh to Helensburgh services and class 320 units cascading to Lanark/Carstairs/Coatbridge/Larkhall/Motherwell-Dalmuir/Milngavie services and do you think we may see the occasional class 318 unit on the Airdrie to Bathgate line?

I don't think anyone knows with any certainty what will happen come the opening of A-B. It all depends on how many 380s are accepted.

As for 318s, no, you won't see them on A-B services. There's no platform kit for DOO, so trains will either need a guard or their own cameras (eg, 334s and 380s - but 380s won't for various other reasons).

Ewan

 

[route101]

In an ideal world on the Airdrie to Bathgate you would have all the EMU classes allowed to work the line ..

Despite all the setbacks im looking forward to my first journey on a 380

 

[Bittern]

do you think we may see the occasional class 318 unit on the Airdrie to Bathgate line?

Doubtful.

 

[me123]

I'd have hoped you would have seen some 318s going to Edinburgh via Bathgate. It's not uncommon at the moment to see 318s go out to Airdrie (whereas they're not normally booked to do so on a weekday) in times of disruption, particularly on Milngavie-Airdrie limited stop services. But obviously the DOO issues prevent this. So you'll very probably still see the occasional 318 out at Airdrie, as happens presently, but it probably won't go any further.

 

[rail-britain]

It may be possible to see a Class 318 between Airdrie and Bathgate, but it would not be in public use
In the event of a Class 380 going pear shaped in Edinburgh a Class 318 could be sent, to then temporarily operate between Edinburgh and North Berwick

 

[CarterUSM]

I think it would be more likely they would send a spare 380 through from shields though, surely?

 

[route101]

It may be possible to see a Class 318 between Airdrie and Bathgate, but it would not be in public use
In the event of a Class 380 going pear shaped in Edinburgh a Class 318 could be sent, to then temporarily operate between Edinburgh and North Berwick

Yep i remember taking a 318 from Drem to Edinburgh and never thought a 318 was special in Edinburgh. A 318 sure beats a 334

 

[CarterUSM]

Yep i remember taking a 318 from Drem to Edinburgh and never thought a 318 was special in Edinburgh. A 318 sure beats a 334

Totally, brilliant units, reliable, quick , and comfortable. They seem to me to just feel more solid than a 334.

 

[Bittern]

Agreed. I have a special place in my heart for 318269.

 

[route101]

Totally, brilliant units, reliable, quick , and comfortable. They seem to me to just feel more solid than a 334.

You got it ' solid' . The 334s are jerky too .
Lets see what the 380s are gonna be like...

 

[Damien1986]

I'd have hoped you would have seen some 318s going to Edinburgh via Bathgate. It's not uncommon at the moment to see 318s go out to Airdrie (whereas they're not normally booked to do so on a weekday) in times of disruption, particularly on Milngavie-Airdrie limited stop services. But obviously the DOO issues prevent this. So you'll very probably still see the occasional 318 out at Airdrie, as happens presently, but it probably won't go any further.

In other words on Airdrie to Balloch via Singer services and off peak Airdrie to Milngavie services?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Totally, brilliant units, reliable, quick , and comfortable. They seem to me to just feel more solid than a 334.

The 334's are ok but I prefer the class 318 units as they have more comfortable seating and are good for long journeys!

 

[rail-britain]

I think it would be more likely they would send a spare 380 through from shields though, surely?

That is assuming there is a spare Class 380
If one is not available then a Class 156, 158, 170 could be used between Edinburgh and North Berwick
However, only a 318 could be used between North Berwick and Glasgow
Therefore it is more likely to be spare at Yoker (for Argyle Line)
What is unusual is that the Class 334 does not have permission beyond Edinburgh

 

[CarterUSM]

There is no problem with running a diesel between North Berwick and Glasgow central though, 156's have deputised from the central on more than a few occassions due to a unit fault with the 322. As you say though, IF there is a 380 going spare!

 

[MacCookie]

What is unusual is that the Class 334 does not have permission beyond Edinburgh

Yes they do. They're cleared for Edinburgh to Drem Junc and Drem Junc to North Berwick.

Regards,
Ewan

 

[rail-britain]

There is no problem with running a diesel between North Berwick and Glasgow central though

Furthermore, this route is applied towards any penalties that would be incurred in the event of cancellation
Therefore FSR are more likely to take a EMU out of service in the SPT area and transfer it across, rather than use a DMU
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes they do. They're cleared for Edinburgh to Drem Junc and Drem Junc to North Berwick

Not from December, Class 334 are to be removed

 

[MacCookie]

Not from December, Class 334 are to be removed

Just because it's not in the TAA, doesn't mean that they can't be used. You seem convinced that because something is or isn't listed in the TAA that that means it may or may not be used. It doesn't.

For example, according to the TAA that you love to quote from, ScotRail may not use Class 314s or Class 322s to Ayr. But they have used both this year.

Ewan

 

[rail-britain]

Just because it's not in the TAA, doesn't mean that they can't be used

I am not about the current TAA, these are the proposals for the next timetable period, where one would expect a Class 334 but may also see other units pass along the route
From December Class 322 units will operate, but the only alternative once Class 380 units take over is the Class 318; Class 334 units will not be permitted to be used

 

[MacCookie]

I am not about the current TAA, these are the proposals for the next timetable period, where one would expect a Class 334 but may also see other units pass along the route
From December Class 322 units will operate, but the only alternative once Class 380 units take over is the Class 318; Class 334 units will not be permitted to be used

The track access agreement does not define what traction can or can not be used on any particular route. Whether it's the current one or the proposed one is irrelevant! It's about firm and contingent access rights.

Class 158s - not part of the Standard or Additional Specified Equipment for the Whifflet route, yet they've been working services on it recently.
Class 170s - not part of the Standard or Additional Specified Equipment for the Shotts route, yet they've been working services on it occasionally.
Class 314s - not part of the Standard or Additional Specified Equipment for the Ayr route, yet they worked services there earlier this year.
Class 170s - Additional Specified Equipment on Glasgow North Electrics service group from December (which includes Edinburgh - Bathgate, hence the inclusion), yet they are not permitted on most of the route west of Airdrie.
Class 334s - Additional Specified Equipment in the May timetable yet the wires have only just been turned on!

Shall I go on?

If you don't know what "Standard Specified Equipment" or "Additional Specified Equipment" means, could I suggest that you look it up? Google will help, or I've posted the definitions on here and on scot-rail (in fact, just did a quick search on scot-rail and here you go: http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/message/223051).

The definitive list of what traction can be used where is in the Sectional Appendix.

Regards,
Ewan

 

[The_Stig]

The last I heard the 322's are to be kept until June-ish.

 

[Damien1986]

Considering the first day of the new timetable is 12 th December do you think that will be the day that the class 320 units will start operating on the Argyle line?

 

[Bittern]

Considering the first day of the new timetable is 12 th December do you think that will be the day that the class 320 units will start operating on the Argyle line?

Here's an idea; instead of asking questions which have nothing related to the thread itself (380s), why not start a thread about the Argyle Line where these questions would be fitting.