380 in Britain NOW!

[Bittern]

Has this whole 380 disaster had any effect on the 320 Argyle Line cascade?

 

[rail-britain]

Has this whole 380 disaster had any effect on the 320 Argyle Line cascade?

No as the Class 334s will displace these units and that is proceeding irrespective from next timetable change, but I can put this question at my next update request just to make sure

 

[me123]

In all likelihood, I wouldn't imagine that the Argyle and North Clyde lines would be affected all that much. There may be some trains formed shorter, but I imagine that it would be Ayrshire and Inverclyde that would bear the brunt for most of it. Argyle services may have to wait a while longer to be strengthened than anticipated (in order to keep more 318s on Ayrshire & Inverclyde duties), but I doubt that there's going to be too much of a problem otherwise.

That all said, from what I've been reading on Scot-rail.co.uk, it looks like it'll get back up and running soon, with more testing being done more frequently to get them out and about ASAP.

 

[158722]

Has this whole 380 disaster had any effect on the 320 Argyle Line cascade?

Disaster?! Has anyone noticed one?

 

[hstconnor]

Does any one know the next class 380 movement?

 

[me123]

According to this excellent webpage, the next anticipated arrival is 20/10/10. That will be both 380102 and 380103. These can and do change, however, so keep a wee eye on the site if you're going out to spot/phot it. There's usually some gen on the site reporting 7X80's every move.

Still no 3 car units coming over as of yet (first expected over some time in November). Even with the delays, if things continue on schedule from now on, it probably won't be too bad. So I think "disaster" is a bit of an exaggeration at the moment. What's likely to happen is that the Argyle line services that were going to be strengthened to 6 cars will have to make do with just the 3 for a wee while longer, and maybe some Ayrshire/Inverclyde cutbacks/reshuffling as well.

The important thing at the moment is that we should be ready for the class 322s heading back South.

 

[Bittern]

Disaster?! Has anyone noticed one?

I don't mean "disaster" as in "crash"; I mean it as in there's been almost nothing but trouble regarding the 380s, from late delivery to roof damage to late entering service (they were supposed to be in service last month!).

 

[rail-britain]

late entering service (they were supposed to be in service last month!)

The units were anticipated to enter service in September, but that was just a suggestion by Transport Scotland
The contractual date was 18 October

 

[The_Stig]

The real testing will happen when they are put into service.

 

[jopsuk]

I thought Siemens does testing of all units at the factory before delivery? Previous Desiros haven't had anything like this level of problems, have they?

 

[The_Stig]

Yes they are run around the test track doing stop/starts. I meant that the real test is when passengers are banging buttons on doors, abusing toilets etc.

 

[CarterUSM]

Or standing there waiting for the doors to open themselves at locations such as mount florida!

 

[me123]

[youtube]iuR7RcLBTSo[/youtube]

(OK, I was just looking for an excuse to post a 303 video )

 

[route101]

well i saw an 8 car formation last night testing in central .

 

[rail-britain]

Good to see 380109 in use at last
This is the one that was supposed to go to Carlisle but was replaced at the last minute (due to a brake failure)
Ironically, the brake failure was in the other unit, which then scraped its way to Carlisle, plus infamously losing a part before reaching Carlisle

 

[route101]

[youtube]iuR7RcLBTSo[/youtube]

(OK, I was just looking for an excuse to post a 303 video )

Is that Queen Park?
Nice area of town

 

[CarterUSM]

[youtube]iuR7RcLBTSo[/youtube]

(OK, I was just looking for an excuse to post a 303 video )

I so knew someone was going to link that!

 

[T163R]

Are they similar to the other Desiro EMUs ? (350, 360, 444, 450) (i'm talking about technics and cab)

 

[rail-britain]

They certainly appear to be very similar in terms of electrics and performance
I made the extra effort to travel on a Class 350, I actually managed three; 350105, 350130 and 350110, thus allowing me to compare these to a Class 380

However, internally they are very different
The London Midland 350/2 has a predominantly 3+2 seating layout, with First Class and a trolley area
The ScotRail units have a 2+2 layout throughout

 

[swt_passenger]

They certainly appear to be very similar in terms of electrics and performance
I made the extra effort to travel on a Class 350, I actually managed three; 350105, 350130 and 350110, thus allowing me to compare these to a Class 380

However, internally they are very different
The London Midland has a predominantly 3+2 seating layout, with First Class and a trolley area
The ScotRail units have a 2+2 layout throughout

The LM 350/1s are 2+2 throughout. It's their 350/2s that are mostly 2+3 with 2+2 in First.

 

[rail-britain]

The LM 350/1s are 2+2 throughout. It's their 350/2s that are mostly 2+3 with 2+2 in First.

edited, I had missed out the sub-class

 

[jamesontheroad]

Is that Queen Park?
Nice area of town

Why thank you, I live just round the corner Not much has changed, we still have the oldest trains on the network but the station has recently been repainted in highlights of ScotRail blue

 

[rail-britain]

we still have the oldest trains on the network

From December you will have both, the oldest and newest (still shared with the Gourock route)!

The Class 314 are ironically now suited to the Cathcart Circle
However, when one of the driving vehicles has no power it should be banned from the Neilston services, having been on one in such condition it loses time very quickly

All the Class 314 units really need are upgraded door controls, but in a more accessable position than they were on the Class 303
In 2012/2013 an internal refurb of the seats should also be performed
That should seem them through to 2018 when the next cascade should be completed and sadly see the end of their time in service

 

[me123]

2018? I've heard rumours about their retirement for several years now, and it keeps being pushed back. Indeed, I thought that the only reason that they've never been internall refurbished is because the date for withdrawal keeps getting pushed forward at the last minute! Of course, there's no point refurbishing a unit if you're scrapping it in a few years time, but the few years seems to have become a bit more than that! The latest estimate I'd heard for withdrawal was 2015, but 2018 seems more likely given what else is happening on the rail network.

They're pretty miserable inside, to be honest, and I don't really think they're suitable for Inverclyde runs (although I'd rather see them there than in Ayrshire!). There is a part of me that (vaguely) remembers the 303s when I go on a 314, but on the whole they are in desperate need of refurbishment. Are they going to get one? I suppose we can only hope.

Interestingly, I've just found this artist's impression of a Class 314 refurbishment, which actually looks really good!

 

[CarterUSM]

All the Class 314 units really need are upgraded door controls, but in a more accessable position than they were on the Class 303

What is wrong with the door controls? I also believe they are still very reliable units.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They're pretty miserable inside, to be honest, and I don't really think they're suitable for Inverclyde runs (although I'd rather see them there than in Ayrshire!).

I think they are perfectly suitable for inverclyde runs! The plebs up that way deserve the oldest units in service in my opinion! ( outwith the peak commuters and genuine leisure travellers of course!)

 

[rail-britain]

What is wrong with the door controls?

They don't have any for use by the passengers, the only units in Scotland still without them
This was "promised" at the last refurbishment by NatEx, but was pulled at the last minute as the cost was so high
It has been "promised" yet again, the first unit is supposed to get this early in 2011
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

2018? I'd heard for withdrawal was 2015, but 2018 seems more likely given what else is happening on the rail network

The current plan is to withdraw these units in 2015, as they will not meet the legal requirements that will apply
However, I am expecting many TOCs and RoSCos to ask for this to be extended due to lack of funding to either upgrade existing stock or late delivery of newer stock

Equally, in Scotland with the two main electrification programs there will be quite a massive cascade of rolling stock with an almost doubling of the current EMU fleet
Included in the most recent (well July actually) were details that the initial order would include an additional order so that the Class 314 units could be withdrawn once the Edinburgh - Glasgow QS phase 2 project is completed, but that isn't until 2018
However this may be a planning error and what they actually mean is phase 1, due 2015 and also meets the planned legal requirements that the current Class 314 design does not meet

 

[CarterUSM]

Sorry rail britain, i thought you were talking about the driver door controls!

 

[rail-britain]

Sorry rail britain, i thought you were talking about the driver door controls!

I would have thought the hint would have been the reference to the door controls on the Class 303
I know of some people who had to stand near where the front of the train would stop or near other people, as they couldn't reach the buttons! (I think the video also clearly shows this issue, but a different aspect of this)

 

[CarterUSM]

I would have thought the hint would have been the reference to the door controls on the Class 303
I know of some people who had to stand near where the front of the train would stop or near other people, as they couldn't reach the buttons! (I think the video also clearly shows this issue, but a different aspect of this)

Yep, just that i associate the term door controls with the crew ones. Force of habit i'm afraid!

 

[prod_pep]

With regard to the 314s, I'm a bit confused. If they're losing some of their duties on the Cathcart Circle, does this mean more 6-cars on Glasgow - Gourock?

It has been said that their number of daily diagrams will drop from 14 to 13 when the 380s are up and about, so am I right in surmising that 380s will run most of the Cathcart Circulars, with 314s remaining on the Neilston and Newton branches as well as the Inverclyde, with more off-peak pairs?