377 - How many coaches?

[RichardKing]

This morning, I caught 1F13 Hastings - Victoria. As it pulled into Hampden Park, I noticed that '3 CAR' was displayed on a white pad (for platform staff to see, I'd imagine).

This seems rather odd as the train was announced as being the usual 4 coaches, attaching to a further 4 coaches at Lewes (from Seaford).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

377s come in 3, 4 and 5 car variants.

There are also 3 car class 313s in use on local services along the south coast.

you probably saw the 3 car stop mark - the 4 car mark would be further along.

 

[Barn]

This morning, I caught 1F13 Hastings - Victoria. As it pulled into Hampden Park, I noticed that '3 CAR' was displayed on a white pad (for platform staff to see, I'd imagine).

This seems rather odd as the train was announced as being the usual 4 coaches, attaching to a further 4 coaches at Lewes (from Seaford).

If it's what I'm thinking of, it's a flip pad to remind the driver what he's driving rather than to communicate to platform staff. So you were seeing another number facing outwards, but the correct number was facing the driver I suspect.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I'm surprised at that - I thought 377s had a little slider in the cab that can be adjusted to show, 4, 8, and 12 car to the driver.

 

[causton]

I'm surprised at that - I thought 377s had a little slider in the cab that can be adjusted to show, 4, 8, and 12 car to the driver.

Which does not help when trains can be anything between 3 and 12.

I have seen it recently, I guess the flip board has the full 3 to 12 (and more?) range as 4 - 8 - 12 don't cover all eventualities now with the 5 car units, and 2 x 3 etc...

 

[tsr]

I'm surprised at that - I thought 377s had a little slider in the cab that can be adjusted to show, 4, 8, and 12 car to the driver.

I've been in the cabs of most of the 377s on the Southern network and I've never seen one of those!

The onboard Mitrac computer should/will prominently display the length of the train and supposedly works independently to the occasionally rather worrying PIS system ("Coach 9 of 8").

 

[Kentish Paul]

If it's what I'm thinking of, it's a flip pad to remind the driver what he's driving rather than to communicate to platform staff. So you were seeing another number facing outwards, but the correct number was facing the driver I suspect.

Ineed. I recently arrived in Brighton from Southampton and passing the cab noticed the driver packing his flip pad into his bag. It was showing 4. We had arrived in a 4 car 377.

 

[RichardKing]

377s come in 3, 4 and 5 car variants.

There are also 3 car class 313s in use on local services along the south coast.

you probably saw the 3 car stop mark - the 4 car mark would be further along.

No, there was a flip-pad in the driver's cab that showed '3 CAR'. It wasn't on the platform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it's what I'm thinking of, it's a flip pad to remind the driver what he's driving rather than to communicate to platform staff. So you were seeing another number facing outwards, but the correct number was facing the driver I suspect.

Oh, that makes sense.

Thanks

 

[causton]

I've been in the cabs of most of the 377s on the Southern network and I've never seen one of those!

They're on Train Simulator - perhaps that's where most people have seen them

 

[plastictaffy]

Class 321's definitely used to have them - one of the units LM had had them right up til it left. However, I have seen at least one driver with one on the desk of a 350 - I should imagine some quick work was deftly done with a knife or similar.......

I've also seen one or two that have three laminated bits of paper joined together, and just show whichever suits at the time. Of course, we only run 4's, 8's and 12's on LM, so only three bits are required. Thinking about it though, it must be a nightmare for drivers of some companies. We have the Croydon services from Milton Keynes, and they can be 4, 5, 8, 9 or 10 car trains!!!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Couldn't some display/indicator stating the number of coaches be installed on the cab panel, tied into the TMS so it displays the correct number of coaches? When Electrostars couple or uncouple, does the TMS detect how many coaches have been added or does the driver have to input how many coaches were added or taken off?

 

[plastictaffy]

Couldn't some display/indicator stating the number of coaches be installed on the cab panel, tied into the TMS so it displays the correct number of coaches? When Electrostars couple or uncouple, does the TMS detect how many coaches have been added or does the driver have to input how many coaches were added or taken off?

I'm fairly certain that the the TMS on our Desiro's configures itself for units being put on/taken off. When a driver keys in, it works out how many carriages there are then. I should imagine that most TMS systems would do the same. I suppose there could be a way of having something displayed to the driver, but it could be argued it's a distraction. Perhaps a system that when the train hits, say, 15mph on ariival at a station, there could be a display that tells the driver how long it is, and (where applicable) which side release it should be.

 

[Class2ldn]

All gtr 377s have the sliders as do the 319s.

 

[A-driver]

The formation sliders are not built into units. Southern units don't have them. FCC stuck them into all their stock-they are just attached with a bit of double sided tape. Despite most GN units having sliders the majority of drivers still have their own number cards/pads/reminders etc as the sliders are not always in the best place to see them-a pad or post it note in the windscreen can be much more obvious of a driver is concerned about a stop short. Same goes for using the mitrac display-it's not in your normal field of vision when driving so most drivers wouldn't rely on that as a reminder.

I believe-specifically to southern-the decision was actively taken NOT to install the sliders as the company was concerned a missing / broken one could lead to a driver attempting to blame a stop short on the defect. This is what I was told when I was a trainee and asked why neither the diagrams or stock had formation reminders like many other companies do.

 

[Pumbaa]

SWT have a small flip pad for drivers. They can either be positioned on the desk tucked behind some buttons, or wedged into the windscreen at the top left corner, so that the driver can see the reminder pad and the stop car mark 'match up'.

Although Siemens don't like that approach much as it ruins their window seals...

 

[tsr]

Couldn't some display/indicator stating the number of coaches be installed on the cab panel, tied into the TMS so it displays the correct number of coaches? When Electrostars couple or uncouple, does the TMS detect how many coaches have been added or does the driver have to input how many coaches were added or taken off?

As A-Driver and myself has said, yes, this is included in the Mitrac software on Electrostars.

Some drivers rely on it more than others. The vast majority of, if not all, drivers who work 377s will also drive other traction without this feature, so that may be a further reason for such software not being relied upon. A paper pad carried in your bag does not have this problem.

A Southern service can be formed of anything from 2 to 12 coaches (in the case of those who work 171s and 377s). Fortunately Mitrac will cover the longest formation - a 12 coach 377 consist, which is rather long, and you have to make sure you do the job of stopping in the right place especially well each time - so I'm sure it's helped on more than one occasion.

Interestingly, Southern have guards who open the doors on stock such as 171s and 455s, and there are no company-supplied memory aids or pieces of equipment to assist in opening the correct numbers of doors. Normally a highlighter or a Sharpie will have to suffice.

 

[physics34]

we have so many different formations that we need these reminder flip pads. The fixed ones in the cab may just be in 387 cabs.