377/6

[TEW]

There's only one working via Gatwick. The 1932 Horsham-Victoria. That's weekdays only too. You do get quite a lot of 377/6s to Horsham via Dorking though. On Saturdays there is one 5-car unit out on Horsham via Dorking trains all day. 0731 VIC-HRH and 0904 HRH-VIC then repeating every 3 hours.

 

[JonathanH]

Observation from passing through Victoria this morning.

377607 on 2R05 0601 Selhurst to London Victoria then 2E02 0647 London Victoria to Dorking

This isn't one of the diagrams posted elsewhere.

377625 berthed in platform 12 at Victoria (and may have worked 0749 London Victoria to London Bridge rather than 0747 to Epsom)

 

[33056]

66177 with nice shiny 377 602 and absolutely filthy 66112 on the rear on the way from Wembley to Stewarts Lane, 08:30 14/12.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks, list updated.

So 21 now available/used.
3 on test (626, 616 & 602 in order of delivery).
2 left to deliver (601 & 603).

I note from the UKmodernEMU Yahoo group that already 18 of the 24 diagrams are being currently used. The last six diagrams seem to be really three discrete pairs so they will switch over to 377/6s in pairs I suppose. Makes sense that an extra 4 will be used once 3 or 4 more units are ready. I guess the last 2 extra will be a few weeks after that once all the units have really bedded in. There will then be 24 diagrams for 26 units.

 

[317 forever]

I didn't see any 377/6's in service today. My train (0700 VIC-EPD) was a 455, as were a lot of the trains I expected to see as 377's. There was even one 10-car 377/1+377/3+377/3 combo! I hope that my regular trains are 377/6's instead of 455's soon, does anybody know what trains will remain 455's and what ones will become 377/6?

The 377/1+3+3 combo does seem a bit of a cop-out but inevitable until all the class 377/6s are in service. I sincerely hope this is temporary. I also hope that all the routes intended for 10-car operation will be fully 377/6 by next May, including on Saturdays.

I may postpone my next Croydon trip until 2015 in the hope of riding 377/6 and 377/7 on the same day.

 

[southern442]

Correct.

377602 should leave Derby tonight.

Maybe its just the train I was on (377613)

 

[swt_passenger]

.. I also hope that all the routes intended for 10-car operation will be fully 377/6 by next May, including on Saturdays.

How could they possibly be 'fully 377/6'?

There are 26 units, and 24 daily diagrams. So that allows 12 services to be operated as 10 car trains. They are planned to be used on the following routes, as previously discussed:

Victoria to Dorking/Horsham via Hackbridge and Epsom
Victoria to Epsom Downs via Norbury
Victoria to West Croydon via Streatham Hill
Victoria to London Bridge via Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace
London Bridge to Epsom/Guildford via Norwood Junction
London Bridge and Victoria to Caterham and Tattenham Corner (train divides Purley).

So 12 trains spread over all those routes, in two directions, so less than 1 train each way per hour per route. Other methods of providing 10 car trains must continue at the same time, even when all 377/6 units are delivered...

 

[Peter Mugridge]

377 608 terminated at Epsom this morning just before 10.00; presumably that would have put it on the 10.19 stopper back to Victoria.

 

[317 forever]

How could they possibly be 'fully 377/6'?

There are 26 units, and 24 daily diagrams. So that allows 12 services to be operated as 10 car trains. They are planned to be used on the following routes, as previously discussed:

Victoria to Dorking/Horsham via Hackbridge and Epsom
Victoria to Epsom Downs via Norbury
Victoria to West Croydon via Streatham Hill
Victoria to London Bridge via Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace
London Bridge to Epsom/Guildford via Norwood Junction
London Bridge and Victoria to Caterham and Tattenham Corner (train divides Purley).

So 12 trains spread over all those routes, in two directions, so less than 1 train each way per hour per route. Other methods of providing 10 car trains must continue at the same time, even when all 377/6 units are delivered...

I did not realise the numbers of units involved so yes, you are right that other 377 combos will be needed. Thankfully there will still be plenty of choices for 377/6s at Victoria for example.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Well after spying them around London and at Ashford (Kent) on test, I finally managed a trip this morning. After waiting to see what formed what at Victoria 377605 arrived to form the 08:07 to Dorking. I intended to venture as far as Sutton but decided to give up at Clapham Junction as the seat was like sitting on a plank of wood. I think my regular 395 seats are hard but they are like soft cushions compared to a 377/6 seat.

Apart from the seats most of the rest was fine. Tables, sockets, good legroom, a lot of seats matched the windows, an excellent ride and good acceleration. Of course these sets are brand new and this one felt like it.

Overall 7 maybe 8 out of ten.

 

[physics34]

There are multiple complaints about the seats... are they any worse than the 3+2 seating in the rest of the 377 fleet?

Give me a drafty EPB or VEP with a big bouncy soft seat anytime!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Earlier on in this thread, and on Twitter, I posted that the seats on the 377/6 have achieved levels of passenger comfort not seen since the Sprague Stock was withdrawn on the Paris Metro.

Nobody seemed to spot the real meaning of my post. then again, maybe the Sprague was too long ago for most people these days... ( Never ridden on one myself, but I've heard stories about some of the earlier ones having literally wooden benches for seats; to be fair the later ones had softer seats but still pretty hard... )

 

[radamfi]

I'm not too bothered about the seats being hard, but the seats seem unnecessarily upright.

 

[Class377/5]

Earlier on in this thread, and on Twitter, I posted that the seats on the 377/6 have achieved levels of passenger comfort not seen since the Sprague Stock was withdrawn on the Paris Metro.

Nobody seemed to spot the real meaning of my post. then again, maybe the Sprague was too long ago for most people these days... ( Never ridden on one myself, but I've heard stories about some of the earlier ones having literally wooden benches for seats; to be fair the later ones had softer seats but still pretty hard... )

I did. Although I've found the 442 table seats more uncomfortable for me personally.

 

[JB25]

I'm not too bothered about the seats being hard, but the seats seem unnecessarily upright.

For posture? Too many people slouch!

 

[Class377/5]

377701 was out on the Derby test track yesterday.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have done a spread sheet with the 377/6 times in/around Croydon on weekday afternoons. I will see if I can disgorge it here. Its possible to see all 24 (currently 18) diagrams between 17:14 and 22:43.

To make it easier to use I am updating it to show departure times rather than WTT arrivals in some cases. Also adding up or down. Diagrams 615-620 not yet improved.

Diagrams:-
601+602. . . . . . . . w15:28u . w16:45d . w17:17u . w18:35d . w19:29u
603 . . . . . . . . . . . e15:42d . e16:47u . . . . . . . . .w18:16dc . w(18:48)u
604 . . . . . . . . . . . m15:08u . m16:09d . m17:08u . m18:11d . . . . . . . . e20:26u . c21::21- . c22:13- . m23:10d
605+606. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . m20:11d . m21:34u . w22:44dc
607+608. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . w16:24d . w17:25u . . . . . . . . .m19:41d
609 . . . 11:49-23:45=604 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e20:26u=
610 . . . 17:37-19:37=603 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .w18:16dc=. w(18:48)u
611 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e17:56d .. . . . . . . . . e(19:19)u
612 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . w17:35-42 . w18:37-43 . Terminates from/to NORTH of W.Croydon
613 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e16:17u . w17:33d . w18:26u . . . .e19:45d . . . . . . . . . e21:17u . m22:27d . m23:15u . w00:23d &45u
614 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . w16:14dc &45uc . . .w18:04d &56u . . . . . . . w20:14dc . w21:18uc . . . . . . . . m23:41d
615 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e19:14d . e20:47u . . . . . . . . . w22:02d &34u . e01:03d &12u
616 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e19:14d . e20:31u . e21:34d . e22:30u . e23:34d
617+618. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . m16:18d . m17:38u . w18:45dc . . . w(19:24)uc
619+620. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . m16:38u . m17:41d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . m20:01u . w21:14dc . w22:17uc . m23:49d
621 . . . 13:23-23:53=614. . . w16:14dc &45uc=. . .w18:04d &56u=. . . . . . . w20:14dc= . w21:18uc= . . . . . . m23:41d=
622 . . . 17:01-18:57=613. . . . . . . . . . w17:33d= . w18:26u= . . w19:45d . w20:35u . m22:11d . w23:41u.
623 . . . 07:47-19:03=612. . . . . . . . . . w17:35-42= . w18:37-43= . Terminates from/to NORTH of W.Croydon
624 . . . 08:01-18:05=611. . . . . . . . . . e17:56d= . . . . . . . . . . e19:00u . e20:04d . e21:02uECS

w=West Croydon,
e=East Croydon,
m=Mitcham Junction,
c=Crystal Palace,
()=passing/does-not-call,
= means works with lower numbered diagram,
u=up,
d=down.

Note diagrams 601+602, 605+606 & 619+620 will be the last six (three pairs) of diagrams going over to 377/6. Not believed to be 377/6s yet (13/12/2013).
However diags 601+602 & 619+620 have been producing 377/6s BUT diags 607+608 & 617+618 did not have 377/6s on them on 20/12/2013 !.

Link to list of units and delivery dates etc.

Correction major :-
Diagrams 613 & 621 Time m22:41 WRONG should be m23:41d.
Diagram 610 added w(18:48)u as I omitted it before.

 

[bicbasher]

I had my first experience of a crowded 377/6 after boarding a late running 1806 London Bridge to West Croydon this evening. One of the advantages of the 1+1/2+2 seating is that you don't feel so claustrophobic when there's passengers standing in the gangway.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

For posture? Too many people slouch!

*ahem*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6187080.stm

Sitting up straight is not the best position for office workers, a study has suggested.

Scottish and Canadian researchers used a new form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) to show it places an unnecessary strain on your back.

They told the Radiological Society of North America that the best position in which to sit at your desk is leaning back, at about 135 degrees.

Spinal disk movement occurs when weight-bearing strain is placed on the spine, causing the disk to move out of place.

Disk movement was found to be most pronounced with a 90-degree upright sitting posture.

It was least pronounced with the 135-degree posture, suggesting less strain is placed on the spinal disks and associated muscles and tendons in a more relaxed sitting position.

As someone who has back problems myself I can absolutely confirm that I do indeed feel a lot more comfortable at the 135° position described in this article.

 

[cjohnson]

Experienced my first 377/6 on the Wimbledon loop this morning (2E68) - the seats are bloody uncomfortable!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sightings Tuesday 17/12/2013 :-

West Croydon
377618 + 377609 17:17 to Victoria via Crystal Palace
377619 . . . . . . . 15:25 to London Br
377622 + 377617 17:32 to Epsom Downs
377608 + 377623 17:42 to London br
377624 + 377621 18:04 to Epsom Downs
377617 + 377622 18:26 to Victoria
377614 + 377613 18:21 to Epsom
377609 + 377618 18:35 to Epsom Downs
377612 + 377610 18:45 to Sutton
East Croydon
377620 + 377611 19:14 to Caterham & Tattenham
377625 . . . . . . . 19:23 ECS
377617 . . . . . . . 19:45 to Tattenham
377605 . . . . . . . 20:04 to caterham
missed !!!! . . . . . 20:26 to Victoria (the only Horsham via East Croydon using 377/6s)
Crystal Palace
377615 . . . . . . . 21:21 to London Bridge (should have been the ten car I missed above).

Thats 18 of them seen in use, so 604, 606 & 607 resting/missed (reckon I missed one),
Just 3 of them on test (602, 616 & 626),
And 2 left to deliver (601611 & 603).

 

[andy19_64]

According to the ACW's Horsham should be getting there first 377/6 10 car berthing there tonight.
If they are correct it will be 2E32 00.47 arrival and this will berth in the one of the north branches.
Cannot remember of the top of my head what it makes in the morning, it will either be 2E05 06.20 or 5E11 ecs to Epsom. Out of the two i think it is 2E05
It will be interesting to see if it happens tonight/tomorrow.

On a secondary note another 456 went out of service today (17th) unit 6017

 

[Class377/5]

377601 has left Derby a second time.

Just leaves 603 that should be here before the weeks end.

Then in the new year the 377/7 start arriving with the first four pretty much competed already.

 

[MCR247]

Are they just the same as the /6s but with a panto?

 

[Class377/5]

Are they just the same as the /6s but with a panto?

Pretty much.

However as first class is permanent on then, curious if they have any different seating.

 

[Peter Sarf]

According to the ACW's Horsham should be getting there first 377/6 10 car berthing there tonight.
If they are correct it will be 2E32 00.47 arrival and this will berth in the one of the north branches.
Cannot remember of the top of my head what it makes in the morning, it will either be 2E05 06.20 or 5E11 ecs to Epsom. Out of the two i think it is 2E05
It will be interesting to see if it happens tonight/tomorrow.

Tu-Fr mornings after 2E32 arrives at 00:47 they stable and should next work 5E05 06:20 to Victoria.

BUT

Sa mornings they stay stabled at Horsham until Monday morning when they then work 5E05 06:20 to Victoria.

So the pair stay at Horsham all weekend.

AND

I have updated my list of units.

Only one 603 left to deliver.
I suspect 616 and 626 must have nearly completed testing, followed by 602 then 601.
So 21 out of 26 already available for service.

 

[33056]

377 601 should be at Stewarts Lane now. Was nearly 2 hours late leaving Bescot this morning but only an hour late leaving Wembley (10:40 instead of 09:40) due to clawing back 40 minutes stand time at Birmingham International and not messing around running one loco from the front to rear at Wembley (doing it at Battersea Loop instead). Locos were 66109 and 67006 if anybody interested.

 

[swt_passenger]

Pretty much.

However as first class is permanent on then, curious if they have any different seating.

I'd put a couple of quid on there being no difference. There aren't any existing SN 377s with different seats for first class (compared to the adjacent 2+2, not the 2+3) are there?

 

[JonathanH]

I'd put a couple of quid on there being no difference. There aren't any existing SN 377s with different seats for first class (compared to the adjacent 2+2, not the 2+3) are there?

There are subtle differences (mainly the armrests and seat covering) between standard class and first class in a 377/4.

 

[JB25]

So Southern are getting 377/7s too?