377/6

[87015]

613 in service this morning paired with, I think, 607

 

[theageofthetra]

Just noticed 70120? being pushed into the sidings as I went past Battersea on my way to Victoria just now.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just noticed 70120? being pushed into the sidings as I went past Battersea on my way to Victoria just now.

That will be 377620, just came from Derby via Wembley.

Thanks 87015 - I've updated my list in post #321.

I noticed one five car 377 with another 377 (could not see all vehicles) attached behind at Selhurst. It/they were in the new looking sidings that run round the side of the depot towards Selhurst station with what looks like loo emptying aprons.

Hope to see the two evening London Bridge / West Croydon diagrams this evening.

 

[MK Tom]

Do we know when the 377/7s are likely to start arriving? Or if they're under construction yet?

 

[Class377/5]

Thanks 33056.

I notice delveries seem to be moving ahead on two fronts possibly. That is 377613 upwards and 377620 upwards. So does that denote two production lines ?. It might be settling down to two units delivered per week so with 15 to go (total 26 ?) that is 7 1/2 weeks which would be early December.
See post http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1600808&postcount=321

All 26 units have already been built.

613 in service this morning paired with, I think, 607

I saw 377613 in service coming from Crystal Palace heading for London Bridge coming down the spur this morning.

Do we know when the 377/7s are likely to start arriving? Or if they're under construction yet?

The 377/7 build has been suspended to get the 377/6 out of Derby and in service. Not come from me but someone with knowledge from within Bombardier.

 

[JonathanH]

Hope to see the two evening London Bridge / West Croydon diagrams this evening.

377609 and 377604 on the first (1636 London Bridge to West Croydon).

377606 and 377605 on the second (will be the 1705 London Bridge to West Croydon)

 

[GodAtum]

Is this the 377 with the funny window edges I saw this working at Norwood Junction and no 1st class?

 

[southern442]

Is this the 377 with the funny window edges I saw this working at Norwood Junction and no 1st class?

Yes, they are also very easy to spot at Selhurst Depot.

 

[GodAtum]

As an aside why are the window edges different?

 

[southern442]

As an aside why are the window edges different?

Just because it is the newer window design. The 172's, 378's and 379's all have them.

 

[swt_passenger]

Isn't it more like going back to an older method of window fitting, because the flush bonded type took too long to repair under special conditions. The change probably means a man in a van with an ordinary set of tools can fix a broken window again...

 

[hwl]

Just because it is the newer window design. The 172's, 378's and 379's all have them.

Quicker and easier to replace when they get broken apparently.

 

[ert47]

I think the original suppliers of the ribbon glazing also went out of business.

 

[jimbouk1]

377612 and 377611 were spotted on test between Faversham - Canterbury - Dover this afternoon around 4.00pm. One point of interest were charging sockets by most of the seats for mobile phones and/or laptops. Surprising to see Southern 377/6's around East Kent!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Can i just ask, sorry i am struggling to keep track of what is happening with the 377/387s.

How many 377/6s are built? How many in service?
Same with 377/7s and how many in total?

What are the 387s then? (it has just got me all confused a little i am sorry.)

 

[Vicpaul]

Being a driver I would only see these in open yards or on the running line.

See my first today heading to west Croydon have to say I don't like the fact the light for the track camera is always lit

 

[jopsuk]

ooh, are they lit up like 379s?

 

[swt_passenger]

What are the 387s then? (it has just got me all confused a little i am sorry.)

The 387s are a batch of further trains ordered by DfT (via SN) intended for temporary use on the Thameslink route but earmarked for use elsewhere in the country, destinations yet to be decided..

They were often previously referred to as 377/8s in this and other forums, but in hindsight there was nothing official to confirm this, it was just a reasonable assumption as they were known to be Electrostar units.

It was the TSGN ITT that first referred to them as 387s.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The 387s are a batch of further trains ordered by DfT (via SN) intended for temporary use on the Thameslink route but earmarked for use elsewhere in the country, destinations yet to be decided..

They were often previously referred to as 377/8s in this and other forums, but in hindsight there was nothing official to confirm this, it was just a reasonable assumption as they were known to be Electrostar units.

It was the TSGN ITT that first referred to them as 387s.

Ah okay, so when are they due?

 

[43074]

Ah okay, so when are they due?

2015, for Thameslink, to enable 319 cascades to occur before the 700/701s arrive as I understand it.

There's more on them in the TSGN tender documents in the relevant thread.

 

[YorkshireBear]

2015 for Thameslink to enable 319 cascades to occur before the 700/701s arrive, as I understand it.

There's more on them in the TSGN tender documents in the relevant thread.

Ta, best get reading then!

 

[Class377/5]

Can i just ask, sorry i am struggling to keep track of what is happening with the 377/387s.

How many 377/6s are built? How many in service?
Same with 377/7s and how many in total?

What are the 387s then? (it has just got me all confused a little i am sorry.)

377/6 - 26x five car DC units - Built, 6x serviceable, 5x being commissioned, 15x still at Derby (601-603/608/610/614-617/621-626
377/7 - 8x five car dual voltage units - Construction has stopped to allow 377/6 fleet to leave Derby
387 - 29x four car dual voltage 110mph capable - To be built after 377/7 with delivery between May and November 2015.

2015, for Thameslink, to enable 319 cascades to occur before the 700/701s arrive as I understand it.

There's more on them in the TSGN tender documents in the relevant thread.

There no such train as a class 701 currently. The TRSP units are class 700/0 and 700/1.

 

[43074]

There no such train as a class 701 currently. The TRSP units are class 700/0 and 700/1.

Yes, I meant 700/0 and 700/1.

 

[Class377/5]

Yes, I meant 700/0 and 700/1.

The mistake was in a magazine I brought today so you may have picked it up there, guessing confusion is from the 800/801 fleets.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sightings tonight

London Bridge Thursday 24/10/13 hung around to see :

17:36 to West Croydon 377609 leading 377604 rear.
and waited to see if anything like a Crystal Palace service produced !.
18:06 to West Croydon 377606 leading 377605 rear - took this to Croydon then walked to :-.

East Croydon

19:10 to East grinstead 3*377/3+1*177/4 - doh.

Watched and information farce there see another thread.

So I guess someones earlier post re 613 with possibly 607 is right BUT on what service(s) or diagram ?.

I now realise others have already confirmed the two diagrams I saw .

 

[JonathanH]

Sightings tonight

London Bridge Thursday 24/10/13 hung around to see :

17:36 to West Croydon 377609 leading 377604 rear.
and waited to see if anything like a Crystal Palace service produced !.
18:06 to West Croydon 377606 leading 377605 rear - took this to Croydon then walked to :-.

East Croydon

19:10 to East grinstead 3*377/3+1*177/4 - doh.

Watched and information farce there see another thread.

So I guess someones earlier post re 613 with possibly 607 is right BUT on what service(s) or diagram ?.

I now realise others have already confirmed the two diagrams I saw .

The observations appear to suggest 377613+377607 worked this morning but were replaced by one of the two pairs for the afternoon. The "second" diagram includes a Crystal Palace to London Bridge working in the morning at 0936 after the two Norwood Junction starters and that is presumably what was seen(?).

Logic would suggest that seven units are needed in traffic before a third pair are diagrammed.

Sorry for stealing your thunder with this afternoon's observations - I was able to fit in the two West Croydon services on an afternoon off work. Do keep up the good work - it is always interesting to see what changes are being made (and what eventually what they choose to lengthen) to accommodate the introduction of new trains.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The observations appear to suggest 377613+377607 worked this morning but were replaced by one of the two pairs for the afternoon. The "second" diagram includes a Crystal Palace to London Bridge working in the morning at 0936 after the two Norwood Junction starters and that is presumably what was seen(?).

Logic would suggest that seven units are needed in traffic before a third pair are diagrammed.

Sorry for stealing your thunder with this afternoon's observations - I was able to fit in the two West Croydon services on an afternoon off work. Do keep up the good work - it is always interesting to see what changes are being made (and what eventually what they choose to lengthen) to accommodate the introduction of new trains.

Ah thanks for that. I seem to remember someone else saying that they had even swapped units with SL (Stewarts Lane) during the middle of the day way back up the thread. Crystal Palace - The diagram does not make it to West Croydon in the morning but Norwood Junction instead BUT I forgot it also makes it to Crystal Palace . Makes sense to have a unit (or pair) spare - after all that will be the case when they are all in service.

I guess the 377/6 pair (?) I saw as I passed Selhurst Depot about 10:10 yesterday (Thursday 24/10/13) were probably the spare pair that came out for the afternoon OR the pair off the non Crystal Palace diagram. The Northbound Thameslink I was on was rammed full so I could not see if anything came south. I would have expected a 377/6 pair to cross us at about Sydenham.

I also noticed last night that all the seat pairs I looked at had a power socket below the window. Was going to check if any first class stickers had appeared but forgot to sample that coach .

Its all useful information and sometimes it helps to confirm what others saw.

Looks like Derby are getting two units (10 coaches) delivered each week as per what Class377/5 says (post #352) so all 377/6s should be delivered by the end of 2013. That makes me wonder if the 387s are coming before May-Nov 2015. May-Nov 2014 seems possible as there are only 8 377/7s to build between December 2013 and the 387s. Of course I am ignoring any other stock being built and lead times for components.

 

[tsr]

I also noticed last night that all the seat pairs I looked at had a power socket below the window. Was going to check if any first class stickers had appeared but forgot to sample that coach .

Yes, all rows of seats have BS1363 public electrical power sockets, as mentioned "up thread" also. And very handy they are too. I think one socket per couple of seats is ample for the journeys these units will do - even Brighton runs, probably, especially given the current lack in Standard Class on other 377s.

I've noticed that the "First-Class-to-be" sections on at least some of the units do not have the distinctive yellow stripes above the doors & windows.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, all rows of seats have BS1363 public electrical power sockets, as mentioned "up thread" also. And very handy they are too. I think one socket per couple of seats is ample for the journeys these units will do - even Brighton runs, probably, especially given the current lack in Standard Class on other 377s.

I've noticed that the "First-Class-to-be" sections on at least some of the units do not have the distinctive yellow stripes above the doors & windows.

Doh - I cannot believe I have never looked for the yellow line . Must admit I have spent my efforts on the inside. But the yellow line above the windows has been used as far back as the 1970s at least !. The yellow line is probably more definite and certainly more permanent than the stickers.

The devil in me says the power sockets are more important than the first class and that Brighton will steal our Metro units even if they never have first class labeled !.

Bit of rambling conjecture on my part but here goes :-
Does make me think the 377/6s will never have first class markings. After all a 377/6 sandwiched between a 377/3 and a 377/4(or/1) would be twelve cars and enough first class for the weekend ?. Why use 377/6s to Brighton on a weekend anyway though ?. Surely there are enough of the older 377s (/1,/2,/3 &/4). Unless the hire charges are less for the 377/6s - bit like the SWT class 444 fleet mileage is near to the max charge band and so they use 450s that don't run up such a high mileage on weekdays (EDIT source Roger Ford in Modern Railways Informed Sources).

I suppose the above sort of applies to 10 car East Grinstead workings as one 377/3 and a 377/6 would be 8 cars. Long enough at weekends ?. Hands off our sockets btw !.

 

[jopsuk]

Thought: if they'd truly wanted a pure Metro fleet (which in my opinion is what they should have gone for) they should have ordered (and it no doubt could easily have been delivered) a fleet with the interior of a 376, the doors of a 376/378, the intra-unit gangways of a 378 and the driving cab/gangways of a 377. What with the modular design, I'm pretty sure this would have been easily achievable.