377/6

[Southern Dvr]

Southern have themselves confirmed the 377/7 are for the Milton Keynes service.

Simple case of putting headrests and sticking some stickers up on a Friday night and removing them on a Sunday night.

That won't happen for long. They'll soon forget to do it or to take them away again. Mark my words!!

 

[southern442]

Simple case of putting headrests and sticking some stickers up on a Friday night and removing them on a Sunday night.

Where is the first class "similar to the 377/4" ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

The first class is POTENTIALLY in one end coach. There are dividing doors in that coach but no other indication - not even different seats from what I could tell. More detail in an earlier post of mine in the thread.

Found it :- http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1576615&postcount=230

 

[Class377/5]

Where is the first class "similar to the 377/4" ?

Same as the 379 fleet. Doors are built into the stock already. Just as the mock up showed all that time ago.

7Z70 20:22 Derby Litchurch Lane is booked to run tonight hauling 377611.

 

[33056]

7Z70 20:22 Derby Litchurch Lane is booked to run tonight hauling 377611.

Got as far as Wembley Yard (7Z71 05:12 Bescot to Wembley) where the move appears to have "died"; should have carried on as 7O01 09:03 Wembley to Stewarts Lane.

 

[Deepgreen]

This again brings up the scandal of Southern's 'first' class, which is, as far as I know, the only such accommodation in the UK (possibly the world?) which is identical to standard (I don't count anti-macassars as a first class service!). Southern have provided ridiculously tiny stickers about the first class on the dividing glass partitions which leads me to suspect that they want to lure unsuspecting people in and then charge them penalty fares! It's not even as if the 'first' is much less crowded, as people either ignore the differentiation or aren't aware of it. An absoulte shambles (or, worse, conspiracy).
The 377/7s are for the Milton Keynes route, and may have 'first' accommodation, but the 377/6s certainly won't. Even Southern wouldn't have the cheek to call the 377/6s' concrete tombstone three-plus-two seats first class!

 

[swt_passenger]

Even Southern wouldn't have the cheek to call the 377/6s' concrete tombstone three-plus-two seats first class!

Nice rant, but (as you can see from the pics posted earlier in the thread, eg #226 ) the 377/6s are 2+2 throughout, exactly as described ever since they were first ordered.

 

[TEW]

The 377/6s don't have any 3+2 seating. It's all 2+2. If they do dedicate a section as First Class it would be very similar to the First Class on all the other 377s, just with different seats.

 

[Deepgreen]

Of course I should have said "3+2" "style" seating - these have the 'concrete' seats but in a 2+2 configuration. Thanks for the pointer. I still cannot imagine why a first class section would be appropriate in what are designated as suburban units.

 

[swt_passenger]

Of course I should have said "3+2" "style" seating - these have the 'concrete' seats but in a 2+2 configuration. Thanks for the pointer. I still cannot imagine why a first class section would be appropriate in what are designated as suburban units.

Again, if you read a few of the recent pages of this thread, you'd see a discussion about the practicalities of them being used on Brighton main line services at weekends...

 

[TEW]

Remember that even if they do get designated First Class areas they'd be declassified when working suburban services anyway. Currently First Class is declassified on 377s working Southern Metro services and there are messages to that effect both on the onboard and station PIS systems.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course I should have said "3+2" "style" seating - these have the 'concrete' seats but in a 2+2 configuration. Thanks for the pointer. I still cannot imagine why a first class section would be appropriate in what are designated as suburban units.

These are an entirely new design of seat and I'd actually say they are worse than the 3+2 seats fitted to the other 377s. I actually find the shape of the 3+2 377 seating rather comfortable, they're just a tad firm. The 377/6s seats just didn't seem very comfortable to me. Fine for the suburban work they're intended for, but not the best for the Brighton Express work at weekends.

 

[southern442]

This again brings up the scandal of Southern's 'first' class, which is, as far as I know, the only such accommodation in the UK (possibly the world?) which is identical to standard (I don't count anti-macassars as a first class service!). Southern have provided ridiculously tiny stickers about the first class on the dividing glass partitions which leads me to suspect that they want to lure unsuspecting people in and then charge them penalty fares! It's not even as if the 'first' is much less crowded, as people either ignore the differentiation or aren't aware of it. An absoulte shambles (or, worse, conspiracy).
The 377/7s are for the Milton Keynes route, and may have 'first' accommodation, but the 377/6s certainly won't. Even Southern wouldn't have the cheek to call the 377/6s' concrete tombstone three-plus-two seats first class!

Southeastern

 

[thelem]

This again brings up the scandal of Southern's 'first' class, which is, as far as I know, the only such accommodation in the UK (possibly the world?) which is identical to standard (I don't count anti-macassars as a first class service!).

There is slightly more leg room in first class - you've got a table of four and a single longitudinal seat on each side of the aisle, compared to a table of four and a pair of airline seats in the same space in standard class. There's also a subtle difference to the arm rests for some reason.

I accept that they are very similar though, and I can only assume people book there for the better chance of getting a seat.

 

[TEW]

The longitudinal seats are only in the 377/4s and /5s. The earlier builds have a row of airline seats and a table each side of the gangway in First Class.

 

[Bishopstone]

There is slightly more leg room in first class - you've got a table of four and a single longitudinal seat on each side of the aisle, compared to a table of four and a pair of airline seats in the same space in standard class. There's also a subtle difference to the arm rests for some reason.

I accept that they are very similar though, and I can only assume people book there for the better chance of getting a seat.

If we're talking 377/4 (and 377/5), the headrests are slightly larger than in Standard, too. I hadn't noticed any difference in the arm rests, but will look for it, now. There are also complimentary drinks (tea, coffee, water) from the trolley where that service is provided: Brighton Mainline Expresses, Coastway (Victoria to Haywards Heath/Lewes) plus GatEx, of course.

But yes, most First Class customers on Southern are commuters paying a premium for a seat.

 

[southern442]

If we're talking 377/4 (and 377/5), the headrests are slightly larger than in Standard, too. I hadn't noticed any difference in the arm rests, but will look for it, now. There are also complimentary drinks (tea, coffee, water) from the trolley where that service is provided: Brighton Mainline Expresses, Coastway (Victoria to Haywards Heath/Lewes) plus GatEx, of course.

But yes, most First Class customers on Southern are commuters paying a premium for a seat.

If you travel first on a 377/3 you get a bigger table too. But only if you are in a group seat.

There are lots of different threads discussing this topic, including one of my own, but we are going a bit off-topic.

 

[Class377/5]

Got as far as Wembley Yard (7Z71 05:12 Bescot to Wembley) where the move appears to have "died"; should have carried on as 7O01 09:03 Wembley to Stewarts Lane.

It was late coming down and arrived later than its departure time at Wembley. Didn't leave it seems going off what I looked at today.

Will note that its reported that 606/609 should be in service tomorrow with a third 10 car train (units 5/6) in service next week and will get out as far as East Grinstead.

 

[33056]

It was late coming down and arrived later than its departure time at Wembley. Didn't leave it seems going off what I looked at today.

Yes, it was late but it would have been less than an hour late from Wembley; there was no problem with that and there was a driver for it so I am not sure what the problem was

It is finally on its way now (07:30 17/20) with 67006 and 67019 running in the path of 0O79 - the path for the VSOE locos which I think is what the 67s will do afterwards.

 

[southern442]

It was late coming down and arrived later than its departure time at Wembley. Didn't leave it seems going off what I looked at today.

Will note that its reported that 606/609 should be in service tomorrow with a third 10 car train (units 5/6) in service next week and will get out as far as East Grinstead.

Will this be a regular working for them as those services are frequently 10-car trains and I'm moving down that way soon.

 

[swt_passenger]

Southern's recent announcement did not explicitly include East Grinstead, but then again 10 car trains doesn't actually require 377/6s, other permutations of 3 and 4 are possible, so the list doesn't necessarily mean they won't go to East Grinstead, IYSWIM...

Ten-car Metro trains will be introduced on the following routes this December:

Victoria to Dorking/Horsham via Hackbridge and Epsom
Victoria to Epsom Downs via Norbury
Victoria to West Croydon via Streatham Hill
Victoria to London Bridge via Streatham Hill and Crystal Palace
London Bridge to Epsom/Guildford via Norwood Junction
London Bridge and Victoria to Caterham and Tattenham Corner (train divides Purley).

 

[Peter Sarf]

Noted this morning (Thu 17/10/2013) at just before 11:00.

37760? south
377606 north
In the sidings just south of Norwood Jct station that are probably a headshunt for Selhurst Depot. I was on a passing North bound but I was bit slow !. Could have been on the furthest West platform road. Clearly counted two lots of five coaches but I was too slow/stupid to get the unit at the south end .

I assume they were laying over from the diagram that 377/6s have been using. Now where is that diagram I printed off !.

EDIT - see post 294.

 

[Minstral25]

Southern's recent announcement did not explicitly include East Grinstead, but then again 10 car trains doesn't actually require 377/6s, other permutations of 3 and 4 are possible, so the list doesn't necessarily mean they won't go to East Grinstead, IYSWIM...

From observations it seems that often the very early peak trains on Southern's network are formed of units that then go onto Metro duties, so it's quite possible that the East Grinstead service will come into Victoria or London Bridge then form a metro service back out.

 

[Class377/5]

Southern's recent announcement did not explicitly include East Grinstead, but then again 10 car trains doesn't actually require 377/6s, other permutations of 3 and 4 are possible, so the list doesn't necessarily mean they won't go to East Grinstead, IYSWIM...

Brighton isn't on the list either but isn't stopping Southern repairing for that.

Noted this morning (Thu 17/10/2013) at just before 11:00.

37760? south
377606 north
In the sidings just south of Norwood Jct station that are probably a headshunt for Selhurst Depot. I was on a passing North bound but I was bit slow !. Could have been on the furthest West platform road. Clearly counted two lots of five coaches but I was too slow/stupid to get the unit at the south end .

I assume they were laying over from the diagram that 377/6s have been using. Now where is that diagram I printed off !.

The info was a second set of diagrams so I'm curious what they are up to.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Brighton isn't on the list either but isn't stopping Southern repairing for that.



The info was a second set of diagrams so I'm curious what they are up to.

I am EXPECTING that the unidentified unit I saw above (post 291) coupled to 377606 is 377609. I might get the 1806 departure off London Bridge to West Croydon as I was hoping to confirm that. BUT if its on an East Grinstead or something then I am going to wish I took my usual route Victoria to East Croydon !. Still a fly past of Selhurst Depot from Norwood does not hurt - IF I am quicker this time !.

I am only aware of the one in-service diagram so far :-
06:32 Norwood Jct to London Br
08:02 Norwood Jct to London Br
17:05 London Bridge to West Croydon.
18:06 London Bridge to West Croydon.
And that the evening pair of runs are more reliable than the morning.

Is the above the first or second diagram for 377/6s so far. I assume East Grinstead is more likely to be third diagram. Or have I misread the thread in the past ?.

 

[FOH]

I am only aware of the one in-service diagram so far :-
06:32 Norwood Jct to London Br
08:02 Norwood Jct to London Br
17:05 London Bridge to West Croydon.
18:06 London Bridge to West Croydon.
And that the evening pair of runs are more reliable than the morning.

Is the above the first or second diagram for 377/6s so far. I assume East Grinstead is more likely to be third diagram. Or have I misread the thread in the past ?.

I caught the 0842 from Forest Hill this morning which is my regular train and it was a pair of 377/6s for the first time

 

[JonathanH]

I am EXPECTING that the unidentified unit I saw above (post 291) coupled to 377606 is 377609. I might get the 1806 departure off London Bridge to West Croydon as I was hoping to confirm that. BUT if its on an East Grinstead or something then I am going to wish I took my usual route Victoria to East Croydon !. Still a fly past of Selhurst Depot from Norwood does not hurt - IF I am quicker this time !.

I am only aware of the one in-service diagram so far :-
06:32 Norwood Jct to London Br
08:02 Norwood Jct to London Br
17:05 London Bridge to West Croydon.
18:06 London Bridge to West Croydon.
And that the evening pair of runs are more reliable than the morning.

Is the above the first or second diagram for 377/6s so far. I assume East Grinstead is more likely to be third diagram. Or have I misread the thread in the past ?.

That is the first set of diagrams that they were already working.

The other 10 coach diagrams for 2 x 377/3 + 4-377 are (according to the diagrams on ukmodernemu)

0702 Norwood Jct to London Br
0832 Norwood Jct to London Br
0936 Crystal Pal to London Br
1636 London Br to West Croydon
1712 West Croydon to London Br
1736 London Br to West Croydon
1812 West Croydon to London Br
1836 London Br to West Croydon

This works out and back from Selhurst (312/311/188)

and, from Streatham Hill (198/314/315)

0624 Victoria to E Grinstead
0736 E Grinstead to Victoria
0853 Victoria to E Grinstead
1507 E Grinstead to Victoria
1623 Victoria to E Grinstead
1737 E Grinstead to Victoria
1853 Victoria to E Grinstead
2007 E Grinstead to Victoria

but this one involves some splitting of the four coach at the middle and end of the day.

Please note that this is only based on the information in the old diagrams and I could clearly be wrong.

By getting 377/6s on these, 6 377/3s and 3 4-coach 377s are made spare. Presumably the 377/3s become available to replace 6-coach 455+456 formations and this releases 456s to store.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I caught the 0842 from Forest Hill this morning which is my regular train and it was a pair of 377/6s for the first time

That's 30 mins after the 08:02 off Norwood Junction diagram. Diagrams I must find more diagrams .

EDIT - Thanks JonathanH your post just beat me and answers the question.

Must have been the 08:32 off Norwood Jct he saw.

I guess I will cross it tonight so two sets of two units possible for me to check..

I have seen a lone pair of 377/3s at Selhurst depot in the new (?) sidings (round towards Selhurst station). I guess these might have dropped off a 3+3+4 car rake in the afternoon. Or be said replacements for a 456+455 or just as likely 456+456+456 (I kid you not).

 

[JonathanH]

That's 30 mins after the 08:02 off Norwood Junction diagram. Diagrams I must find more diagrams .

This observation from FOH would tie up with the diagrams I have stated.

 

[Peter Sarf]

This observation from FOH would tie up with the diagrams I have stated.

Yes, your faster on the ivories than me.

Oh and I imagine your two newer and more involved diagrams will be for the bedded in units. I guess the just tested units will do the older diagram in the quote (i.e. 06:32 to London Bridge onwards) as that is less involved.

EDITS (20:30) :-

Sightings :-
On Thursday 17/10/2013.
On 18:06 London Bridge to West Croydon 377605 leading 377606.
On 18:36 London Bridge to West Croydon 377609 leading 377604.

I was on the 18:06 and could not resist seeing what was on the 18:36 so waited. Seats are rather firm and maybe a bit higher which suits my long legs. Wonder if I could lounge in one on a long journey though.

That is the longest I have spent on West Croydon station except for the times I stupidly waited for the morning mythical BR service to Wimbledon back in the early 1990's. That was before I learnt that if one was cancelled then that was the whole days service gone and so for the rest of that job I went straight to East Croydon instead (did I pay to go via Clapham Junction ? - I have principles).

I might see if I can escape work early again next Thursday or perhaps I will see if the East Grinstead services (Victoria/East Croydon) throws anything up next week. Typical they are two separate routes that cross over/under each other near Selhurst depot !. Nowhere legal afaik to see both routes !.

Thanks to JonathanH for posting the two newer diagrams.

Conjecture :-
I think that 377609 was the third unit into traffic (was it ?). So I am still clinging to my theory that the latest accepted unit will tend to be put onto the 06:32 Norwood Jct to London Br diagram first (paired with a more trusted unit) then move off that diagram after a while. I will hide now !.

Wonder where 377607 is as that has been at Selhurst depot but no sign of it anywhere down the East/South side this time as I passed ?. Those new sidings, that look like they might have toilet discharge pipes, were empty this time. There was a new looking 377 I glimpsed inside the nearest shed though.

Question :-
Do East Grinstead services expect first class ?.

 

[Class377/5]

I am EXPECTING that the unidentified unit I saw above (post 291) coupled to 377606 is 377609.

That would be my guess

Is the above the first or second diagram for 377/6s so far. I assume East Grinstead is more likely to be third diagram. Or have I misread the thread in the past ?.

In service dates so far

377604 - 24/09/13
377605 - 24/09/13
377607 - 14/10/13
377609 - 18/10/13

East Grinstead requires diagrams/units 5/6 as each 10 car requires two diagrams.

I do know that one of the diagrams that was planned to go over to 377/6 was a peak splitter with units going to Tattenham and Caterham.

At some point the 377/6 will start working off peak alone as that's the plan from December.