377/6

[A-driver]

not true at all I'm afraid, all fcc TL drivers sign and drive 377's.

Well I know one driver who I worked with on southern who was told by doctors to stop driving 377s. Southern refused to allow him to continue working as a driver if he couldn't drive all required traction and so FCC took him on allowing him to work 319 only.

This was a number of years back so things may have changed since but I know he did move to the TL in order to escape 377 driving.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not surprised with the ongoing union issue. Will be awhile yet.

Word from a colleague closely involved is that is a software issue. Which surprises me *awaits pic of Spectrum electrostar pack*

 

[jon0844]

I refuse to believe that a Bombardier train could have any problems. It must be a lie!!

 

[Southern Dvr]

Ironic really that the trains replacing the 456s are going to be late into service because the 456s themselves were late into service!

 

[Class377/5]

Word from a colleague closely involved is that is a software issue. Which surprises me *awaits pic of Spectrum electrostar pack*

I've been given a copy of instruction to drivers on why they aren't to drive them. Software is only one of the issues (and I'm assuming linked to the DSD issue).

 

[fgwrich]

I refuse to believe that a Bombardier train could have any problems. It must be a lie!!

Word from a colleague closely involved is that is a software issue. Which surprises me *awaits pic of Spectrum electrostar pack*

But the 377/6 are meant to be some sort of doctor who type creation arn't they, a 377 Mind in the body of a 379. Obviously one doesn't like the other, just hope they don't start coming up with 'Destroy' messages on the system then!

 

[D365]

What kind of software issues? Not coupling between sub-classes surely, as 377604 managed it with 377311... Also, what is supposed to be stopping the drivers?

 

[Class377/5]

But the 377/6 are meant to be some sort of doctor who type creation arn't they, a 377 Mind in the body of a 379. Obviously one doesn't like the other, just hope they don't start coming up with 'Destroy' messages on the system then!

The 379, 377/6-8 have Orbita which is suppose to work with MiTRAC system. Bit like getting XP and Windows 8 to work together without problems......

What kind of software issues? Not coupling between sub-classes surely, as 377604 managed it with 377311... Also, what is supposed to be stopping the drivers?

There was an software upgrade required for the current 377 fleets to work with the updated Electrostar fleet (377/6 onwards), Initially the 377311 and 377317 required the upgrade and were separate from the rest of the fleet. Now they are working fine and the rest of the 377s will get the new software.

As for the problem, try reading the messages for your answers.

 

[westcoaster]

Well I know one driver who I worked with on southern who was told by doctors to stop driving 377s. Southern refused to allow him to continue working as a driver if he couldn't drive all required traction and so FCC took him on allowing him to work 319 only.

This was a number of years back so things may have changed since but I know he did move to the TL in order to escape 377 driving.

Not doubting you, but when some ex southern came across they ended up in the bottom link, and back then they were 319 only, now all drivers sign all traction. If people then swap out that's there choice.

 

[bronzeonion]

Is there any reason an exact copy of of the old software used on the 'original' 377's could not have just been installed rather than this Orbita stuff. Surely this would have got round the compatibility issues which were bound to come about.

 

[Class377/5]

Is there any reason an exact copy of of the old software used on the 'original' 377's could not have just been installed rather than this Orbita stuff. Surely this would have got round the compatibility issues which were bound to come about.

Not really, you have to upgrade at some point or your stuck with the same basic design. Don't forget that although the 379 & 377/6 fleets look like the Electrostar range they are more Adventra based.

Also the point of this is the software already works together and its not that holding back from service.

 

[jon0844]

I totally agree that you have to upgrade at some point and not get stuck in the past (something Bombardier is regularly accused of) but when you're asked to produce a run-on order of trains, albeit many years later, you'd expect that a company could - for that specific production run - use older software to ensure 100% compatibility?

But if sw isn't actually the reason then what I've said is perhaps irrelevant, but I think still a valid point to make.

 

[D365]

I totally agree that you have to upgrade at some point and not get stuck in the past (something Bombardier is regularly accused of) but when you're asked to produce a run-on order of trains, albeit many years later, you'd expect that a company could - [at least] for that specific production run - use older software to ensure 100% compatibility?

But if sw isn't actually the reason then what I've said is perhaps irrelevant, but I think still a valid point to make.

I wonder if there are any limitations holding back Orbita on the new Aventra-hybrid stock being designed with the capability to communicate with Mitrac on the 'classic' Electrostars. If Bombardier are going through and updating the existing 377s, presumably it's more viable for them to update 'classic' Mitrac rather than redesign 'new' Orbita.

[UPDATE: Class377/5's following post explains all.

 

[Class377/5]

I totally agree that you have to upgrade at some point and not get stuck in the past (something Bombardier is regularly accused of) but when you're asked to produce a run-on order of trains, albeit many years later, you'd expect that a company could - for that specific production run - use older software to ensure 100% compatibility?

But if sw isn't actually the reason then what I've said is perhaps irrelevant, but I think still a valid point to make.

No its still a valid point but the older software isn't capable of running all the new features so was required. This units will generally run around with each other or alone unlike the rest of the 377 fleet.


UPDATE

377609 is booked on the 20:08 7Z70 Derby Litchurch Lane to Bescot move tonight.

 

[33056]

377609 is booked on the 20:08 7Z70 Derby Litchurch Lane to Bescot move tonight.

Now on its way to Wembley and should be at Stewarts Lane by mid-morning (66093 doing the hauling)

 

[oversteer]

Just went past it at Wembley

 

[Class377/5]

Union and Southern have now come to an agreement so the 377/6 should be out in service soon.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Union and Southern have now come to an agreement so the 377/6 should be out in service soon.

Really goes to say something that I am reading this on here before hearing it from the union!

If you can PM any details I'd be most grateful!

 

[Vicpaul]

we've had a handout and DVD but have been advised not to drive them until a few things have been passed by the unions

 

[Pumbaa]

Interestingly same seat (and presumably issue thereof) was not an issue with the 379s and 172s.

 

[westcoaster]

Interestingly same seat (and presumably issue thereof) was not an issue with the 379s and 172s.

But these are new units to toc's whe have not had them before, not to a toc who's had them 10 odd years.

 

[D365]

But these are new units to toc's whe have not had them before, not to a toc who's had them 10 odd years.

Chiltern and London Midland have had Turbostars (168/170) before their 172s.

 

[Class377/5]

Really goes to say something that I am reading this on here before hearing it from the union!

If you can PM any details I'd be most grateful!

Done.

we've had a handout and DVD but have been advised not to drive them until a few things have been passed by the unions

The update came out today which advising driving the 377/6.

Interestingly same seat (and presumably issue thereof) was not an issue with the 379s and 172s.

Not relevant as its a historical issue that pre-dates the build of both classes.

But these are new units to toc's whe have not had them before, not to a toc who's had them 10 odd years.

Right. Not to mention that the new seats in the 379 and 172 fleets have been altered with feedback from the older units.

 

[33056]

.......should be at Stewarts Lane by mid-morning (66093 doing the hauling)

Should have kept my big mouth shut, it's still at Wembley (03:00 18/09) :roll:

 

[Class377/5]

Should have kept my big mouth shut, it's still at Wembley (03:00 18/09) :roll:

Train crew issues for the haul from there.

 

[Vicpaul]

The update came out today which advising driving the 377/6.

just seen it

 

[Class377/5]

Reported this morning on Yahoo Groups that the first public service was scrapped due to unit failure.

 

[ert47]

Reported this morning on Yahoo Groups that the first public service was scrapped due to unit failure.

Part of me is starting to think that its never going to happen

 

[Peter Sarf]

I know what you mean, but its all happened before with new designs.

There are bound to be problems as its a newish design (its based on a 379 rather than the older 377s). It is made to look (and feel ?) like a 377 - but the 377/6, /7 and /8s are not really a 377 as I understand it. The newer software required then has to talk to the older software on the older 377s. Probably not been tried until the new units arrived on Southern.

I get the impression that there are a lot of differences from the earlier 377s (subclasses 1-5). So it might make more sense if these new units were not classified as 377s - why were they ?.

I am still hoping to see them turn up at West Croydon. There are two terminators direct from London Bridge at about 17:35 and 18:37. Think its the same diagram.

 

[jon0844]

Wouldn't Bombardier have done live testing by getting an existing 377 and connecting it up, rather than simply crossing fingers?