377/6 First Class Changes

[Deepgreen]

Travelling home this evening I noticed 377618 at the rear of a train coming to a halt at the up slow platform at Norbury. It had external first class yellow bands above the first class accommodation - the first unit in the sub-classes 377/6 and /7 to be so treated. This is a hugely welcome improvement, and makes it far easier to spot the accommodation from a distance (in order to use or avoid it). I hope that this will be applied to all the 377/6s and 7s. I wonder if it is being done in response to complaints (I have certainly made a few!). The yellow bands look odd at first as they; a) are applied to the light grey base colour rather than the green on the 377/1 - 4 sub-classes, and, b) run both sides of the door set, with a gap for the doors, making the vestibule the only first class example so delineated in the fleet.

I could not tell if any other changes had taken place.

 

[Kite159]

About time.

Even though it would be better if they had "First Class is Declassified on this service" showing on the displays when they work a service which has no First Class (i.e. London Bridge to London Victoria)

 

[Deepgreen]

About time.

Even though it would be better if they had "First Class is Declassified on this service" showing on the displays when they work a service which has no First Class (i.e. London Bridge to London Victoria)

Exactly - and, indeed, any 'Metro' working. Very poorly-designed from the outset - internal, clear electronic signs would have been relatively cheap and effective, rather than having to guess all this time!
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Does anyone happen to know 377618's diagram today, please?

 

[Minstral25]

Exactly - and, indeed, any 'Metro' working. Very poorly-designed from the outset - internal, clear electronic signs would have been relatively cheap and effective, rather than having to guess all this time!
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Does anyone happen to know 377618's diagram today, please?

Where has the first class been put? I had an unusual 377/6 home from Victoria last week and it seemed to have just one larger section of first class in one carriage rather than the more normal two end unit sections in GTR 377's.

 

[Deepgreen]

Where has the first class been put? I had an unusual 377/6 home from Victoria last week and it seemed to have just one larger section of first class in one carriage rather than the more normal two end unit sections in GTR 377's.

The class 377/6s and 377/7s were delivered with a single section of first class in one driving car per five car unit. It covers approximately two thirds of the coach and includes a door vestibule. The section is enclosed by sliding doors within the coach.

From delivery until now, the only external indication of its location in the unit has been the small window stickers, which are only really any use when adjacent to the platform. There had been no external yellow band or "first class" lettering beneath the windows. These units operate largely on 'Metro' workings where first class does not apply, but have a number of workings on longer-distance runs (e.g. Horsham via Redhill) where first is in use. The first class seats are supposed to have anti-macassars fitted when in use as such, and removed for 'Metro' workings, but this simply does not happen.

There has been much confusion among passengers (and some staff!) as to whether first class applies - on my Dorking to Victoria train this morning (a 'Metro' working), people were sitting in first, looking around, then moving, even though the accommodation is de-classified on these workings. The reverse is common on workings where first class applies!

377618 now has external yellow banding plus the large "first class" lettering below the windows. As I mentioned, I don't know whether any internal changes have been made, but my view is that, given that they were planned to be used on both 'Metro' and longer-distance runs (including some to Brighton) they should have been delivered with full external labelling and with internal electronic signs in the first class sections to indicate whether the accommodation is being used as first or standard class on any particular working. Until now, the situation has been an easily-avoidable mess.
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On my train this morning (0831 ex-Redhill), the guard was very efficient at checking first class after every stop (it was a single 377/6). He must have re-directed at least ten people who claimed not to know it was first class (some people were obvious as 'trying it on' because they went to move to standard, saw it was more crowded, and then just sat down anyway before being moved!).

 

[Minstral25]

The class 377/6s and 377/7s were delivered with a single section of first class in one driving car per five car unit. It covers approximately two thirds of the coach and includes a door vestibule. The section is enclosed by sliding doors within the coach.

From delivery until now, the only external indication of its location in the unit has been the small window stickers, which are only really any use when adjacent to the platform. There had been no external yellow band or "first class" lettering beneath the windows. These units operate largely on 'Metro' workings where first class does not apply, but have a number of workings on longer-distance runs (e.g. Horsham via Redhill) where first is in use. The first class seats are supposed to have anti-macassars fitted when in use as such, and removed for 'Metro' workings, but this simply does not happen.

There has been much confusion among passengers (and some staff!) as to whether first class applies - on my Dorking to Victoria train this morning (a 'Metro' working), people were sitting in first, looking around, then moving, even though the accommodation is de-classified on these workings. The reverse is common on workings where first class applies!

377618 now has external yellow banding plus the large "first class" lettering below the windows. As I mentioned, I don't know whether any internal changes have been made, but my view is that, given that they were planned to be used on both 'Metro' and longer-distance runs (including some to Brighton) they should have been delivered with full external labelling and with internal electronic signs in the first class sections to indicate whether the accommodation is being used as first or standard class on any particular working. Until now, the situation has been an easily-avoidable mess.
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On my train this morning (0831 ex-Redhill), the guard was very efficient at checking first class after every stop (it was a single 377/6). He must have re-directed at least ten people who claimed not to know it was first class (some people were obvious as 'trying it on' because they went to move to standard, saw it was more crowded, and then just sat down anyway before being moved!).

Thanks - When I used them on West Brompton services some had the typical 377 driving cabs at each end with the silly bits of paper over the seats. (all were of course declassified anyway as Metro services)

Makes more sense that these larger sections are used at one end, especially for guards who can just hang around one area moving people along. I know the section you mean as well - thanks.

 

[Deepgreen]

Thanks - When I used them on West Brompton services some had the typical 377 driving cabs at each end with the silly bits of paper over the seats. (all were of course declassified anyway as Metro services)

Makes more sense that these larger sections are used at one end, especially for guards who can just hang around one area moving people along. I know the section you mean as well - thanks.

Actually, all the West London line (i.e. Watford/Milton Keynes) workings are shown in the timetable as having operational first class, except the Shepherd's Bush short workings. There will be a mixture of class 377/7s and 377/2s (the two dual-voltage sub-classes) on the full length runs. The former (five coach units) have the first class in one driving car, but at the non-cab end, and therefore differ yet again from the 377/6s, which have it at the cab end! The 377/2s (four coaches) have the smaller section at the cab end of both driving cars.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Actually, all the West London line (i.e. Watford/Milton Keynes) workings are shown in the timetable as having operational first class

But south of Wembley it is, or was, considered declassified. The PIS shows a message to that extent.

 

[Deepgreen]

But south of Wembley it is, or was, considered declassified. The PIS shows a message to that extent.

Interesting - the timetable symbols don't make that distinction. Why then, I wonder, can't the PIS be used to indicate whether first class is in use more widely on the 377/6 and /7 fleets? That would save at least some of the confusion.

 

[FOH]

Interesting - the timetable symbols don't make that distinction. Why then, I wonder, can't the PIS be used to indicate whether first class is in use more widely on the 377/6 and /7 fleets? That would save at least some of the confusion.

It used to until Southern became GTR. IIRC it said something like "First class is not available on Southern Metro services, you may sit in any part of this train."

 

[James Wake]

But south of Wembley it is, or was, considered declassified. The PIS shows a message to that extent.

It didn't say that on my pair of 377/2s a few weeks ago between Wembley and Clapham Junction, so I sat in standard, would have been good to sit in first though.

I'm glad they are finally removing the doubt over where first class is on the 377/6 and 7s.

Although I prefer the layout with the small sections at each end of the unit, not almost two thirds of the front coach being first class, which may cause some consternation on the new class 700s, with few seats in the front coach that are standard class. They will probably be busy on the way into front exit terminus stations, like Brighton, but that's another matter altogether.

 

[Deepgreen]

Although I prefer the layout with the small sections at each end of the unit, not almost two thirds of the front coach being first class, which may cause some consternation on the new class 700s, with few seats in the front coach that are standard class. They will probably be busy on the way into front exit terminus stations, like Brighton, but that's another matter altogether.

'Twas ever thus!

 

[James Wake]

'Twas ever thus!

Indeed

 

[DarloRich]

But south of Wembley it is, or was, considered declassified. The PIS shows a message to that extent.

i best stop sitting in first class on the way home! I thought it was NORTH of Wembley that 1st was declassified

(also is there not a yellow band on them? could have sworn there was!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oops!

Can't remember if there is a yellow band or not tbh.

 

[DarloRich]

Oops!

Can't remember if there is a yellow band or not tbh.

I shall look today!

 

[Deepgreen]

I shall look today!

The 377/2s have the yellow band over each first class section (the cab ends of each driving car), while the 377/7s do not, BUT, having said that, I saw 377707 on a down Caterham train this morning and that had the yellow band applied - the first of the sub-class to have it, meaning that, of the five car sub-classes, 377618 and 377707 both now have the feature. Of course, the position on each sub-class is different - inner end of one driving car on the 377/7s and outer end for the 377/6s. It's all pretty simple really (!).

 

[Tetchytyke]

i best stop sitting in first class on the way home! I thought it was NORTH of Wembley that 1st was declassified

It used to be declassified south of Harrow on weekdays, but throughout on Sundays when the trains terminate at Watford.

Now the trains carry first class accommodation for the whole journey. I've not seen the PIS message for a while.

 

[Deepgreen]

Photo of 377707 now attached - the 1046 arrival from Caterham at Victoria today. Strictly speaking, the yellow band should extend across the doors as well, as the vestibule is first class. The guard on my train from Redhill yesterday informed passengers standing in the first class vestibule that they should move or face a penalty fare. This was the first time I can remember this happening, and, combined with a resumption of ticket inspectors on board and increased vigilance by guards, seems to indicate a tightening of the regime by Southern, and not before time.

 

[Deepgreen]

Saw 377618 as well yesterday and snatched a quick shot from my train. This one has the error where the yellow band does not cover the first class vestibule and it stops short of all the windows/seating bays which are first class (one missed out each side of the doors). Not too critical, but just sloppy. Seen at Cheam.

 

[DarloRich]

it will just be part of their livery design. I wouldn't worry about it to much....

PS the yellow band is only on the 377/2 units i have seen so far. You were right. I never looked before.

 

[Deepgreen]

377614 now also has the yellow banding, and it too fails to cover a lot of the first class accommodation, whereas 377707's covers it all. More inconsistency being introduced by Southern, rather than eliminated. Not vital staff, but a bit peverse.
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They are coming thick and fast now - 377610 now has the yellow banding - and it is correctly applied to the whole first class section, rather than just either side of the doors as is the case on 614 and 618! It must be the collector in me that finds these anomalies at least a little interesting! I do wonder what instructions were provided for those applying the banding (if any!).

 

[swt_passenger]

I do wonder what instructions were provided for those applying the banding (if any!).

Perhaps the instructions did include a line such as "check that the remaining length on the roll can do what you are starting", but they ran out anyway. :cry:

See the long running 'sellotape and Christmas Eve' thread in the parcel wrapping forum...