375/6 Pantographs

[ChrisCooper]

Can anyone remember what the reason was for some of the 375s being fully equipped for dual voltage operation? The two things I seem to recall was either in relation to running domestic services on HS1 (they were ordered well before it was decided to go for the 395s), or to do with the East London Line extension and the possibility of through running onto the 25kV network (again it was well before London Overground came about). The other one I've not heard but I suppose would be feasable would be to do with running onto the 25kV network via the Thameslink tunnels.

The first two would seem odd though if trains were being delivered based on routes that were not even open yet, especially as trains could easily be converted or more built in the future. Pre-LO, was the ELL to come under the South Eastern franchise anyway? The ELL's southern extensions are all into South Central franchise terratory. Perhaps there were plans to extend beyond New Cross too. I know Electrostars were talked about for the HS1 domestic services, but I'm sure if they had been selected then new ones would have been ordered, they wouldn't have used the almost 10 year old ones SET already had. Running via Thameslink would have suggested open access, so did Connex have plans for open access services from Kent to the MML or ECML (remember it was originally Thameslink 2000, so should have happened well before it is going to)?

Also, have they ever actually run on 25kV? I presume they have at Derby as they have a short bit wired up for testing, but what about on the network? I presume they would be able to without significant testing as the safety case for operation on 25kV is already there for the Electrostar.

 

[swt_passenger]

The original 'Thameslink 2000', which would have been current 10 years or so ago, before the inevitable delays, does seem a posible explanation - if the original idea included the taking over of various SN and SE routes, as it does now; but I have never seen any firm evidence of this.

 

[thefab444]

There was a rumour that 375/6 sets would be used on the East Croydon - Milton Keynes service whilst the 377/2 sets were on loan to FCC, but in the end 350/1s were used. So I'm fairly sure 375/6s have never run on 25kV AC in passenger service, and quite possibly not at all apart from testing.

As for why they were ordered, could it have been to replace the dual voltage Class 365s that Southeastern had until 2004?

 

[jopsuk]

the 365s were never equipped for DV though I thought? Pretty sure that whilst they had shoes, they lacked pans, and now they have pans, they lack shoes. I'm not sure they've even got the required gear to allow a changeover- it was more that the design allowed for easy conversion but one and the other?

 

[ChrisCooper]

365s were dual voltage in the same way the rest of the Electrostars and Desiros are. They could have been fitted for full dual voltage operation but they never felt the need, as when split the GN ones always ran on 25kV and had no access to third rail (other than the tunnels to Moorgate which they are not cleared down), and the SE ones only ran on third rail and had no access to overhead (other than via Thameslink). Really it's the same with the 350s and 450s, the former are 25kV only (AFAIK they had their third rail gear removed after they finished being used on the Brighton-MKC service), the latter are 750v only, but they are fairly simple to swap around.

The 375/6s were ordered well before the 365s left, infact they were the first batch of Electrostars for Connex South Eastern.

 

[OxtedL]

There are various bits of overhead in the Ashford area. Off the top of my head I think that this together with the plans for HS1 (which probably had several different route options at the time of the first 375 plans) meant it was sensible.

Have they ever run up the Thameslink, anyone know? With all the stuff going on at the moment it would seem like good flexibility to have.

 

[Fincra5]

Not sure but don't some SE units run up thameslink during peaks?

 

[MCR247]

No, TL run onto SE

 

[b0b]

Not sure but don't some SE units run up thameslink during peaks?

those are 319's that are driven by SE drivers.

 

[Galvanize]

Not sure but don't some SE units run up thameslink during peaks?

Those are FCC 377/5s, from either Bedford or St Pancras (low level) which are crewed by FCC as far as Blackfriars, then Southeastern crew for the run south of the river to either Gillingham or Ashford!

 

[thefab444]

Have they ever run up the Thameslink, anyone know? With all the stuff going on at the moment it would seem like good flexibility to have.

Probably not north of City Thameslink/Smithfield Sidings, but I could well be wrong.

 

[Minstral25]

If the 375/6 have pantographs why were they not used for the SE Thameslink trains when Blackfriars platforms were closed. Instead Thameslink (renown for short trains) had to supply units for teh services to Sevenoaks and Ashford

 

[millemille]

365s were dual voltage in the same way the rest of the Electrostars and Desiros are. They could have been fitted for full dual voltage operation but they never felt the need, as when split the GN ones always ran on 25kV and had no access to third rail (other than the tunnels to Moorgate which they are not cleared down), and the SE ones only ran on third rail and had no access to overhead (other than via Thameslink). Really it's the same with the 350s and 450s, the former are 25kV only (AFAIK they had their third rail gear removed after they finished being used on the Brighton-MKC service), the latter are 750v only, but they are fairly simple to swap around.

The 375/6s were ordered well before the 365s left, infact they were the first batch of Electrostars for Connex South Eastern.

365's couldn't be fitted for dual voltage operation, they are either fitted for AC operation or DC operation but not both - without modification and some long term voltage specific issues being resolved.

 

[MCR247]

Interesting how they did that, very smart