365s looking worse for wear? Reason?

[jon0844]

Yesterday, I was surprised to see the 0941 WGC to KGX as a 365, which has always been a 317 (albeit not a service I get that regularly). Upon its arrival on platform 3, it was clear it had just been washed.

Now as we all know, many windows don't properly shut but this was crazy. Loads of windows were open, and as such there was water all over the aisles, very soaked seats and tables awash with water. They might as well have brought a sprinkler into the carriage!

I shut some of the windows, and they stayed shut, so I actually think someone simply forgot to go through closing them first. Or maybe the water pushed them open (not sure how much pressure there is on the train wash equipment?).

But, beyond this problem (which meant lots of people getting on and then having to move after not noticing initially), I was surprised at the state of the train in general. It was a refurbished one - as I assume they all are by now - but everything looked extremely worn and grubby.

The gangway door to the next carriage wouldn't open fully (got stuck half way) and had to be pulled open manually, while the other one was missing entirely. Coming back, someone would press the button and nothing would happen because there's no door - so would they know to walk through and wave under the sensor?

In the next car was more water, as I assume was the case throughout.

I know some of the refurbs aren't that new now, so I wonder if there's been a reduction in deep cleaning and general maintenance? Are the windows ever looked at, or is it just accepted that many are broken and that's it?

I assume there's no more work planned for a while, so I rather hope they aren't all going to end up looking like this - or it's a sign of what the 700s will look like (although at least they won't let water in!).

Oh and the PIS wasn't working either, but that could be down to the stopping pattern.

I forgot to get the unit number when I arrived at King's Cross sadly.

 

[D365]

I've noticed recently that Great Northern trains (Class 317/321 included) have generally been more grubby. The plastic floor in particular looks very dirty.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I've noticed recently that Great Northern trains (Class 317/321 included) have generally been more grubby. The plastic floor in particular looks very dirty.

So no possibility that standards (of cleanliness) are declining under GoVia...?

 

[bramling]

Yesterday, I was surprised to see the 0941 WGC to KGX as a 365, which has always been a 317 (albeit not a service I get that regularly). Upon its arrival on platform 3, it was clear it had just been washed.

Now as we all know, many windows don't properly shut but this was crazy. Loads of windows were open, and as such there was water all over the aisles, very soaked seats and tables awash with water. They might as well have brought a sprinkler into the carriage!

I shut some of the windows, and they stayed shut, so I actually think someone simply forgot to go through closing them first. Or maybe the water pushed them open (not sure how much pressure there is on the train wash equipment?).

But, beyond this problem (which meant lots of people getting on and then having to move after not noticing initially), I was surprised at the state of the train in general. It was a refurbished one - as I assume they all are by now - but everything looked extremely worn and grubby.

The gangway door to the next carriage wouldn't open fully (got stuck half way) and had to be pulled open manually, while the other one was missing entirely. Coming back, someone would press the button and nothing would happen because there's no door - so would they know to walk through and wave under the sensor?

In the next car was more water, as I assume was the case throughout.

I know some of the refurbs aren't that new now, so I wonder if there's been a reduction in deep cleaning and general maintenance? Are the windows ever looked at, or is it just accepted that many are broken and that's it?

I assume there's no more work planned for a while, so I rather hope they aren't all going to end up looking like this - or it's a sign of what the 700s will look like (although at least they won't let water in!).

Oh and the PIS wasn't working either, but that could be down to the stopping pattern.

I forgot to get the unit number when I arrived at King's Cross sadly.

Yes I've noticed the same, especially the interior doors. It was always common to find occasional ones not working (same on Electrostars it might be added, so something to look forward to with the 387s perhaps), however the number of interior doors not working seems to have increased recently.

It's worth remembering that the 365s are incredibly intensively worked trains. They're on the go pretty much all the time, and in recent years the amount of off-peak, weekend and evening working has increased as many trains now run as 8 cars through the day. 20 years ago virtually the entire GN Saturday timetable was 4-car, now virtually every XX22/XX52/XX14/XX44 departure out of KX is 8 cars. Add to all this the overhaul and refurbishment programme which has been ongoing for several years, plus the fleet being one down at various times (including now) due to the constant level-crossing incidents on the Kings Lynn section, and the fleet has been literally at full-stretch, day in day out. Also the heavy use they get with many trips being busy even at off-peak times. It's a credit to them that they still perform very well with such intensive use.

The 365 has always tended to get a little careworn over time. The original interior did until sorted by the FCC refresh. Likewise the FCC interior. I do think the current interior doesn't seem to be wearing too well though - perhaps the carpets masked dirt a little better than the lino. I'd put it down to intensive use rather than any design or maintenance issues, to be honest.

I think it really is simply a case of not enough on-depot time to rectify every single non-important issue. Only a handful of units end up at Hornsey each night, with by far the majority stabling at light-maintenance-only locations like Cambridge, Peterborough, Kings Lynn or Letchworth. In the past many diagrams stabled at Hornsey between the peaks which was a good opportunity for maintenance, however now many are simply running between the peaks. Characteristics of an intensive operation with stretched resources rather than anything else.

 

[Hadders]

I can't say I've noticed the windows being more problematic than normal but I agree that the recent refresh isn't wearing well. The lino floors looked grubby within days of them being installed.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suspect that the 365s are maybe, in time honoured fashion, being got ready for whoever has them next .

Maybe the refurbishments were a quick win prior to First, not, getting the next franchise ?.

 

[jopsuk]

I think the intensive use is worth noting- remember that when FCC took over from WAGN on the GN there were no 321s on the route. Until 387 introduction it was clear that the weekend services prioritised using the "flagship" 365 fleet (rightly, being nicer, more powerful, trains) with the 317s and 321s mainly parked up.

 

[bramling]

I think the intensive use is worth noting- remember that when FCC took over from WAGN on the GN there were no 321s on the route. Until 387 introduction it was clear that the weekend services prioritised using the "flagship" 365 fleet (rightly, being nicer, more powerful, trains) with the 317s and 321s mainly parked up.

Yep - absolutely so.

I forget the exact figure and don't have the relevant paperwork to hand, but I think until now the M-F daily 365 availability requirement has been 37 out of 40 - it may even be 38. Many of these diagrams work all day, and remember there are some pretty early and late trains - the first train from Peterborough to London is before 04:00, and the last train from London to Peterborough is at 01:35. The weekend requirements are not massively less, although substitutions by 317s or 321s have been relatively common over the years.

Add into this the refurbishment and overhaul programme which has been ongoing for many months now, and the various accidents on the Kings Lynn line which have resulted in units out of service for months at a time. On top of this are usual events like fatalities or dewirements, or defects, which also take units out of service.

It's easy to make a rough estimate from the above how many "rest days" each unit will see every year, and the figure is very low.

One area where the TOC could perhaps do better is "on the road" cleaning. At King's Cross, the last couple of years have seen an annoying policy where the platform for the next outgoing service is advertised just as the incoming service arrives. This doesn't give a good opportunity for cleaners to go through the train. In WAGN days I remember there were quite a few people at King's Cross doing presentational work, even things like cleaning internal glass screens and windows. This wouldn't be possible now the trains are almost immediately re-loaded.

(It's also a pain when getting off an incoming service to be met by an army of people fighting to get on the train's outgoing service - especially when there's still 15 or 20 minutes until departure. On narrow platforms like 10/11 it can also be rather dangerous).

Meanwhile, this week has been half-term week. Some disgraceful passenger behavior observed, for example a Jeremy-Kyle family on their way for a day out in Stevenage today, parents standing on the seats in order to reach the luggage racks, and children playing a game of spitting on the window glass. No wonder the trains look tatty!

 

[D365]

Meanwhile, this week has been half-term week. Some disgraceful passenger behavior observed, for example a Jeremy-Kyle family on their way for a day out in Stevenage today, parents standing on the seats in order to reach the luggage racks, and children playing a game of spitting on the window glass. No wonder the trains look tatty!

Remind me to never fall asleep on a train window again

 

[jon0844]

children playing a game of spitting on the window glass. No wonder the trains look tatty!

Maybe washing the inside of the train wasn't such a bad thing after all!