350 Lights

[willc789]

Can anybody enlighten me as to whats going on with the lighting arrangement on this video?

Skip to 6 mins in and you'll see a 350 service departing Watford with what I would interpret as both headlights and rear lights on (hardly technical terms but im not sure what else to call it!!). Is this just a technical/wiring fault? What causes it? Im fairly sure I've seen Desiro's similar to this with both sets of lights on but at Clapham in the sidings.

 

[tom1649]

Usually because the driver has forgotten to switch them off.

 

[455driver]

On the 450s the tail lights go out as soon as the drivers key is in and the reverser is moved away from off (not sure if the 350s are the same).

The reason the ones in Clapham yard have both the marker lights and tail lights on is because they have been prepped for service and it is what they do to identify them.

 

[willc789]

Might have helped if I had actually attached the video, woops!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpVNe8lu_MM

 

[Crossover]

I suspect when swapping ends, the driver has possibly forgotten to turn off the headlight. What you are seeing there are the tail lights (as you'd expect), the markers and the day running headlight (right hand one when going forward)

From things I have heard and read, it can be a simple mistake to make and probably happens every now and again out on the railway

 

[ainsworth74]

On a related tangent, I wonder if drivers or those more familiar in the rule book could answer question for me? I once saw a driver bring a train in from a siding onto a platform and the unit in question was displaying its tail lights in the direction it was moving and head headlight/marker lights on the rear. Would a driver get in trouble for this or is it allowed for short shunt moves (100m or so)?

 

[Crossover]

On a related tangent, I wonder if drivers or those more familiar in the rule book could answer question for me? I once saw a driver bring a train in from a siding onto a platform and the unit in question was displaying its tail lights in the direction it was moving and head headlight/marker lights on the rear. Would a driver get in trouble for this or is it allowed for short shunt moves (100m or so)?

I have read somewhere about such moves being permissible. Hopefully someone more in the know can clarify though

 

[TDK]

On a related tangent, I wonder if drivers or those more familiar in the rule book could answer question for me? I once saw a driver bring a train in from a siding onto a platform and the unit in question was displaying its tail lights in the direction it was moving and head headlight/marker lights on the rear. Would a driver get in trouble for this or is it allowed for short shunt moves (100m or so)?

The distance is 400m or less, however the rule book quotes if a driver has a station over run they do not need to change the lights to return to the platform, in a siding usually headlights are not used at all, only markers. I think the driver made an error in this case!

 

[willc789]

As someone who doesn't have a particularly great understanding of the actual mechanics of the trains, I'm a bit surprised that on a train as new as the desiro's that there is not a level of computer/automatic intervention to stop this sort of thing happening?

 

[westcoaster]

As someone who doesn't have a particularly great understanding of the actual mechanics of the trains, I'm a bit surprised that on a train as new as the desiro's that there is not a level of computer/automatic intervention to stop this sort of thing happening?

There is on most modern stock, some have a proving panel, some the on board computer and some both ala 377's.

 

[455driver]

On a related tangent, I wonder if drivers or those more familiar in the rule book could answer question for me? I once saw a driver bring a train in from a siding onto a platform and the unit in question was displaying its tail lights in the direction it was moving and head headlight/marker lights on the rear. Would a driver get in trouble for this or is it allowed for short shunt moves (100m or so)?

Perfectly acceptable over a short distance (400 yds as stated).

As for the OP, it looks like somebody forgot to turn the (white) lights off when changing ends, no biggie but the driver will get the <wee wee> taken out of him if other drivers become aware of it.

Of course what is worse is not turning on the lights at the front when changing ends and driving 5 miles before realising there are no lights on at all on the front of the train, not that I have ever done that of course!

 

[tom1649]

On a related tangent, I wonder if drivers or those more familiar in the rule book could answer question for me? I once saw a driver bring a train in from a siding onto a platform and the unit in question was displaying its tail lights in the direction it was moving and head headlight/marker lights on the rear. Would a driver get in trouble for this or is it allowed for short shunt moves (100m or so)?

I've seen this too on a 305 (that dates it a bit!) arriving from the siding into service at Haymarket. There was a member of staff on the Platform pointing at the lights and gesticulating to the driver as it arrived and the driver switched the lights round at this point.

 

[westcoaster]

Perfectly acceptable over a short distance (400 yds as stated).

As for the OP, it looks like somebody forgot to turn the (white) lights off when changing ends, no biggie but the driver will get the <wee wee> taken out of him if other drivers become aware of it.

Of course what is worse is not turning on the lights at the front when changing ends and driving 5 miles before realising there are no lights on at all on the front of the train, not that I have ever done that of course!

We pat our HEAD and flash the LIGHTs to get the point across either that or a quick call to the bobby.

 

[ash39]

At York the Harrogate trains stopping in the bay often switch from front to rear lights as they creep to a stop (still moving), might be the same driver acually!

 

[O L Leigh]

Presumably there is a prep function on the Desiros that allows for all frontal lights to be on at the same time to permit checking. Perhaps this is what has happened as it has clearly overridden the automatic light selection facility.

As for shunt moves, the rules only permit reds on the "front" of a train when setting-back into a platform after a station overrun of not more than 400 yards. Shunting out of carriage sidings into a platform does not meet these criteria irrespective of the distance travelled so the lights really should be changed over before the movement begins.

We pat our HEAD and flash the LIGHTs to get the point across either that or a quick call to the bobby.

I tend not to do anything that would show up on an OTMR download or involve third parties, as it's usually just a simple mistake. A blast on the horn (easily explained away) together with waving and pointing is usually sufficient.

Normally it's reds on the front near originating points that you see, so FCC units leaving Cambridge with the wrong lights on are not uncommon. Most times you can flag a driver before he gets too far, but every now and then you see one who has clearly come a distance. Not long back I flagged an ATW driver near Chepstow for reds on the front. His train surely must have come quite a distance and passed through at least two staffed platforms before I'd seen it. I just hope he got the message and realised why I was waving and pointing at him like a maniac.


O L Leigh

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks for the answer to my question gents

 

[O L Leigh]

Having rechecked the rules I have to make a small correction to my earlier post.

You do not need to change the lights over for a wrong direction move of less than 400 metres irrespective of whether this is due to a station overrun. However, this is still different to a shunt move. Shunt moves under the control of signals are not wrong direction moves, therefore there should not be red lights on the front of a unit carrying out a shunt move.

O L Leigh

 

[Starmill]

I've seen both head and tail lights lit at the same time on both ends of a T68 tram before, but the poor thing was stuck in the platform at the time due to a fault with the doors/interlock!

 

[Kentish Paul]

Just seen a 395 transiting the depot at Ashford with red lights ablaze front and rear.

 

[pendolino]

There is on most modern stock, some have a proving panel, some the on board computer and some both ala 377's.

Have you ever had any weirdness with MITRAC and headlights? I've had a unit that kept insisting the tail lights were on at the front when they weren't, (Cat B alarm going off every few minutes, very annoying) and another that told me the lights at the rear were incorrectly set - when I went back to look I had 2 tail lights and the cyclops light. Very strange.

(BTW 377/3s don't have proving lights in the cab. I think the /1s didn't either when they came out but they've been modded and do now. /2s & /4s do)