317722 Demonstrator

[ModernRailways]

317722 has been given a makeover and I must say it looks great! Looks totally different and I imagine most passengers would think it was a new train.

Article: http://www.therailengineer.com/2013/11/28/class-317-half-old-half-new

When The Rail Engineer last saw train 317722, it was parked in a corner of Bombardier’s Ilford depot (issue 98, December 2012). The interior was missing from two carriages, all of the traction equipment was out from under the frame, and it looked quite forlorn. In fact, this was to be the new Class 317 demonstrator for Angel Trains. It was one of nine 4-car units last used by Stansted Express which have been in storage since early 2012.
The plan was to show how a total refurbishment could change a train. So two cars were being left as they were – the Stansted Express seats had been covered in plastic sheeting to protect them. The other two cars would be completely refurbished and the contrast between old and new would be easy to see....

 

[ginger]

317722 has been given a makeover and I must say it looks great! Looks totally different and I imagine most passengers would think it was a new train.

Article: http://www.therailengineer.com/2013/11/28/class-317-half-old-half-new

really? no aircon then? or wifi? or plug points for the 000s we pay every year and most other LSE commuter TOCs get daily........

oh btw its only 1 unit and when when the contract be signed for the whole fleet to done? oh! 2016!

and completed? possibly 2019.....passengers will all be bankrupt by then! but if we are still standing (wont be any seats) then we can smile!

What a joke! And its all the DFTS faults!!!!!

 

[317666]

Not looking bad at all, as much as I would miss the old growling DC motors and gloomy, warm interiors, it looks very modern and I'd definitely prefer all the units to be modernised in this way than replaced.

 

[TEW]

Definitely got a SWT 455 feel to it.

 

[43074]

I think it looks fantastic, and I'm sure the majority of passengers will really appreciate the changes being made, but there's always a few who don't... :roll:

really? no aircon then? or wifi? or plug points for the 000s we pay every year and most other LSE commuter TOCs get daily........

It doesn't need wifi or aircon or plug points when it is essentially a Metro train demonstrator... i.e. it doesn't need those features. And no aircon saves money - as it is only one unit it would probably be more expensive to install on the one unit.

And re. WiFi only Southern Brighton Expresses and Greater Anglia Stansted Express 379s have WiFi in the LSE commuter area.

oh btw its only 1 unit and when when the contract be signed for the whole fleet to done? oh! 2016!

Well, these things take time, as I'm sure you will understand from your vast knowledge of railways which you always use to your own advantage, if I may say so.

and completed? possibly 2019.....passengers will all be bankrupt by then! but if we are still standing (wont be any seats) then we can smile!

Projects like this will mean fare rises will not be as drastic as would otherwise be the case if GA/DfT ordered 51 New trains to directly replace the 317s. It's saving you money in the short/medium term.

 

[nxea321446]

looks fairly similar to the metro interior of 321448

 

[SprinterMan]

Aren't 317/7s already fitted with aircon, but they just have hopper windows as well?

Adam

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

Aren't 317/7s already fitted with aircon, but they just have hopper windows as well?

Adam

Yeah but it never worked very well! I recall standing on the platform dispatching the things and all of a sudden the aircon would start up. It made a hell of a racket, but had all the effect inside the train of an asthmatic mouse blowing through a straw!

 

[Manchester77]

Looks to be fitted with the same seats as their new 377/6s - even with the green grab handles on the seats! - EDIT yeah hadn't read the article when I posted that sorry

Ginger give it a rest you wouldn't be happy if you commuted on the royal train its frankly annoying and repetitive we get you don't like the operator of the Anglia franchise no matter whom it is but every single thread really?! No need :roll:

 

[Be3G]

Yeah but it never worked very well! I recall standing on the platform dispatching the things and all of a sudden the aircon would start up. It made a hell of a racket, but had all the effect inside the train of an asthmatic mouse blowing through a straw!

The West Anglia mainline is my local territory so I've been on many of these rather old trains and not once have I ever had the slightest sensation of them containing operating air conditioning! So if they do have it, it certainly doesn't work very well.

Some more information is here by the way; apparently WiFi is being built in too!

 

[jopsuk]

there would be even more of a contrast if the other "half" of the unit was a /5, with what's essentially the original interior.

Does the half that's been done include 1st class?

Are the seats, if they're the same as the 377/6, therefore more relevantly the same as the 379s?

 

[JonathanH]

there would be even more of a contrast if the other "half" of the unit was a /5, with what's essentially the original interior.

Does the half that's been done include 1st class?

Are the seats, if they're the same as the 377/6, therefore more relevantly the same as the 379s?

377/6 and 379 have a very different design of seat

 

[87015]

All the possessions for the test runs have been cancelled, unless they pull their fingers out won't be doing anything in the near future.

 

[Manchester77]

Are the seats, if they're the same as the 377/6, therefore more relevantly the same as the 379s?

The 377/6 seat design is thinner, incorporates a grab handle and has a flatter top whereas the 379 design is taller and has a different back
379: http://www.flickr.com/photos/peteryoungrailwayphotos/5687082115/in/photostream/
377/6: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3718/10930272114_b1e9425fd1.jpg

 

[Tottenham Flyer]

The West Anglia mainline is my local territory so I've been on many of these rather old trains and not once have I ever had the slightest sensation of them containing operating air conditioning! So if they do have it, it certainly doesn't work very well.

Some more information is here by the way; apparently WiFi is being built in too!

Only the 317/7's had it. The others don't. And no, it didn't work well.

 

[southern442]

According to greater anglia, the trains are supposed to be for non metro services, as it said they will work trains to Cambridge and Ely. Also, they are being fitted with plug sockets and Wi-Fi, so ginger can relax. Either way I really don't like it. The seats are too hard and upright (having been on a 377/6 I can confirm this), they should've kept the old ones, the interior is bright (which I hate because it gives me a headache) and the old interior lights were cream coloured and very soft and relaxing. I have little doubt that people will prefer the older interior. Unfortunately our beloved DC motors are gone but this will improve reliability.

 

[Aictos]

And re. WiFi only Southern Brighton Expresses and Greater Anglia Stansted Express 379s have WiFi in the LSE commuter area.

Actually Southern DON'T have wifi on their services as I've raised this with Southern themsleves asking why the cost is not shown on their website even though the website says they offer wifi on the Brighton Expresses and this is the official reply to my tweet:

"Hi, this will be removed, there is not WIFI, apologies."

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Only the 317/7's had it. The others don't. And no, it didn't work well.

Actually I used to find that the air con often worked quite well, assuming the windows were kept closed. The fact they were never fitted with some bolts to keep people from opening windows was a major issue.

 

[samuelmorris]

A curious sort of interior really. 2+2 seating is what I'd expect for the routes 317s will end up serving (On the assumption post-TfL they'll never be used for the Enfield/Hertford etc. routes) but the big open vestibule space is more like what you'd expect of metro stock.
I don't have a problem with bright interiors as it helps give the train a modern appearance - for instance I much prefer the brightened new interior being rolled out on the 95TS on the Northern line to the tooth enamel yellow colour they were before. That said, you can't gleam much from a picture, I'd need to travel on one to really say whether the lighting was too bright or not. There's only so much light you want on a journey longer than 30 mins or so and I can see how very bright interiors can be draining long-distance. This said, EC Mk 4 interiors (and the Mk3s done to the same standard) are far from dim, and they're perfectly comfortable to travel long journeys in, lighting-wise.

Lol'ed at the post from Ginger, I'm not sure I can name any 'commuter line' with sockets for public use. I agree they'd be useful, but I'm not about to give my TOC a low customer satisfaction score over it. Train WiFi I can take or leave, it is better than personal WiFi in most cases, but if it costs money to use then it's simpler just to use a personal transmitter of your own.

 

[Eng274]

Do the 317s have fully cooling/heating refrigerated air con modules? Or is it a 'fake' air con that's just pressure ventilation with the option of heating said air in winter? That's what 318s are fitted with, the floor level heaters are usually more effective though. Would explain why 320s didn't have this PV system fitted at build.

 

[southern442]

Lol'ed at the post from Ginger, I'm not sure I can name any 'commuter line' with sockets for public use. I agree they'd be useful, but I'm not about to give my TOC a low customer satisfaction score over it. Train WiFi I can take or leave, it is better than personal WiFi in most cases, but if it costs money to use then it's simpler just to use a personal transmitter of your own.

Some southern trains have plug sockets in first class.

 

[90sWereBetter]

I honestly believe someone from Greater Anglia broke into Ginger's house one night and did what Kimi Raikkonen did, on his living room floor.

Should be interesting to see this unit out and about when it's ready. From my experiences of 317s, they've got a lot of life still in them, so hopefully this demonstrator will be a success.

Don't see the point of having plug sockets and wi-fi on short-haul commuter units. Long-haul, yes.

 

[samuelmorris]

Some southern trains have plug sockets in first class.

'Some' units of one particular TOC in first class only doesn't exactly make them commonplace in the South East does it? :P
I think the inference from Ginger was that they should be in standard as well, if I understood it correctly.

 

[southern442]

'Some' units of one particular TOC in first class only doesn't exactly make them commonplace in the South East does it? :P
I think the inference from Ginger was that they should be in standard as well, if I understood it correctly.

377/6's

 

[Chris125]

Some further photo's can be found here

Chris

 

[southern442]

Some further photo's can be found here

Chris

Which one do we all prefer?

 

[jon0844]

I actually didn't think the 317/7s were done that badly. They seemed to work for their intended purpose, which obviously made it a bit of a problem for commuters.

That said, I can't see why they couldn't find somewhere else to operate - but, hey ho!

Anyway, the new look is much nicer again and much brighter (but any camera on a tripod with a long exposure can make it look stupidly white and eye-piercing so I think you'd have to see them in the flesh to properly judge).

I mean, the photo could have had the white balance set wrong or even been enhanced afterwards (even just a simple 'autofix' function).

I'd be happy to be on either the original or modified sets on FCC, compared to the 317/1 configuration - but even they still serve their purpose.

 

[jopsuk]

It's interesting. The old 317/7 layout is a totally different concept to the new one. The old layout, barring the vestibules, would be suitable for long distance services- indeed they were briefly used on Norwich services. THe new layout appears not to have tables, and they've taken out a row of airline-style (windowless) seats in each section, with big wide vestibules.

So it's not a fair comparison. It's like comparing the interior of a 444 to a 455.

 

[317666]

It is envisaged that the 4-car class 317, which will retain 2 unrefurbished carriages so that passengers can be monitored as to which part of the train they gravitate to...

I can't be the only person who thinks that, actually, passengers will just board whichever coach they're closest to like they generally do anyway?

Agreed that it isn't really a fair comparison, the two interiors are designed for two different service types. Having travelled on the /7s on Cambridge services a few times, I found they were very fit for purpose on outer-suburban services like that as well as for the Stansted Express. But I wouldn't say the new layout with its large vestibules, thin seats and lack of tables, is suitable for anything further than Chingford/Enfield Town/Cheshunt via Seven Sisters (maybe Hertford East at a push).

 

[jon0844]

I can't see most people moving up or down to change carriage as they probably wouldn't even notice.

Unless there are going to be big signs inside, and then you run the risk of everyone packing out the new carriages and eventually the smart people who prefer the new look will opt to go in the old just to get a seat!