2nd Fare Evasion Prosecution

[Silks100]

Hi,

last year i was fined under the railway act for fair evasion, paid a large fine and i presume, got a criminal record (although there was no mention of this on the correspondence).

I've recently just been caught only paying part of my journey, this time over the course of a few months due to financial and personal problems (something i know the rail operator wont really care about).

When they ran the on the spot check, for some reason the only offence that came up was a £20 penalty fare back in 2013.

I know I'm in really trouble here and expecting there is a hefty fine and possible custodial consequences which I'm willing to face. I just wondered whether the first offence would 100% register on their database or will it only come to light when it reaches the court phase? and therefore could i take a chance of settling out of court for a larger than normal settlement fee?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The previous conviction WILL be on the Police National Computer if it was for a fare or ticketing Offence under the Regulation of Railways Act or some other Act.
But, it will NOT be recorded on the PNC if it was for a Railway Byelaw fare or ticketing offence.

The Railway Inspector would not have the authority to interrogate that Computer at the time of your recent incident, and any database which the individual Companies keep must be for lawful purposes and only keep such data for appropriate lengths of time.

So in short, none of us will be able to tell just yet, but if you can find out what Offence the previous conviction was for, then that would answer the biggest uncertainty to this question.

 

[Silks100]

The previous conviction WILL be on the Police National Computer if it was for a fare or ticketing Offence under the Regulation of Railways Act or some other Act.
But, it will NOT be recorded on the PNC if it was for a Railway Byelaw fare or ticketing offence.

The Railway Inspector would not have the authority to interrogate that Computer at the time of your recent incident, and any database which the individual Companies keep must be for lawful purposes and only keep such data for appropriate lengths of time.

So in short, none of us will be able to tell just yet, but if you can find out what Offence the previous conviction was for, then that would answer the biggest uncertainty to this question.

Thanks for the reply.

The first offence, which i pleaded guilty to in early 2015, was;

Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (Stones 7-7043) is usually used for offences of fare evasion on the railways for:

travelling/attempting to travel on a railway without having previously paid the fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof

i received a fine. A criminal record was never mentioned on any of the correspondence, although i presume i have one.

 

[najaB]

last year i was fined under the railway act for fair evasion, paid a large fine and i presume, got a criminal record (although there was no mention of this on the correspondence).

If the original prosecution was for a Regulation of Railway Act offence (which it appears to be based on your post) then it would would normally show up on a DBS check for 12 months from the date of conviction. As DaveNewcastle said, it would help us if you could confirm what the conviction actually was for.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . .

A criminal record was never mentioned on any of the correspondence, although i presume i have one.

There is no need for that fact to be stated in writing to you.

Sadly, I also presume that you have a Criminal Record.
I also presume that this fact will become apparent at a much later stage in the investigation into this recent incident - after having decided, on balance, whether there is enough evidence to justify a Prosecution.

 

[Silks100]

There is no need for that fact to be stated in writing to you.

Sadly, I also presume that you have a Criminal Record.
I also presume that this fact will become apparent at a much later stage in the investigation into this recent incident - after having decided, on balance, whether there is enough evidence to justify a Prosecution.

I thought that would be the case.

Considering this is my second offence and over a longer period I honestly think I could be looking at some sort of jail time.

 

[455driver]

I thought that would be the case.

Considering this is my second offence and over a longer period I honestly think I could be looking at some sort of jail time.

Highly unlikely but a big fine is almost a certainty.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Highly unlikely but a big fine is almost a certainty.

Jail is not even an option for these offences. Your fine may well be higher because it's a repeat offence.

 

[najaB]

Jail is not even an option for these offences.

I'm afraid that isn't true where repeat offenders are concerned.

 

[Silks100]

I'm afraid that isn't true where repeat offenders are concerned.

Is it likely I will be charged under the fraud act 2006?

 

[Puffing Devil]

I'm afraid that isn't true where repeat offenders are concerned.

For Byelaw offences, the only penalty is a fine.

For a RORA offence, custody is technically an option. However, the sentencing guidelines stop at a fine. A repeat offender would need to progress through community penalties before even approaching jail.

Fail to pay a fine or comply with any Community Order and jail does become a realistic possibility.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . .
Considering this is my second offence and over a longer period . . . .

If you mean what I think you mean by 'over a longer period', then it is possible that the Railway Company would be pressing for a very severe sentence. Jail is unlikely if it only involved yourself and there was no other fraudulent activity going on, but . . . . if you were involved with others who were involved in a railway 'scam' which had been going on for some time and/or you were also involved in other 'scams' for which you had previously been sentenced, then jail it might be a possible outcome.

As Puffing Devil rightly adds, a breach of a prior community Order or default in payment of a fine would also be possible triggers for a custodial sentence.

This is just for your infomation - Please do not reply. This is a public forum.

 

[najaB]

A repeat offender would need to progress through community penalties before even approaching jail.

I agree. But you stated that jail wasn't even an option when it is. An unlikely one, but still possible for repeat offenders.

 

[Llanigraham]

Would the previous "event" be applicable when, and if, the Magistrates ask whether there have been any "previous convictions"?
And would they then take that into account in their consideration of their treatment of this "event"?

 

[miami]

If you mean what I think you mean by 'over a longer period', then it is possible that the Railway Company would be pressing for a very severe sentence.

his first post says

"I've recently just been caught only paying part of my journey, this time over the course of a few months due to financial and personal problems (something i know the rail operator wont really care about)."

Which sounds like boarding at an unbarriered station and using a shorter ticket to exit at the other side. For example using the "side entrance at Barnehurst" and then getting a zone 1-2 season ticket to exit at charing cross.

Why Barrenhurst?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=109016

So this morning i got on at Barnehurst train station, but as i was running late i ran straight through the side entrance and didn't purchase a ticket. When i got off at London Charing Cross, I walked out of the side exit but as i was walking down the stairs i saw there were ticket inspectors. On seeing the inspectors it clocked in my head that i didn't have a ticket (i usually go out this exit with my daily return ticket). I turned round to walk back up the stairs and go to the main exit, where i could by a ticket and explain the situation. On turning around, a BTP officer in normal clothes stopped me and asked if i had a ticket. I explained i didn't and he proceeded to caution me and take my details.

If that was the case, it sounds similar to the Peter Barnett case.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34403023

Peter Barnett, 44, travelled from Haddenham and Thame Parkway to London Marylebone, but dodged the full fare by claiming his journey began at Wembley in north-west London.
Chiltern Railways had argued he should pay back nearly £20,000 but the defence said the true value was £6,000.
Barnett, from Oxford, admitted fraud by false representation.

 

[GingerRH]

Sandwich ticketing can land you in a lot of debt if you cant afford the 10s of thousands of pounds in which the fine will be costing you.

As you've previously been penalty fared for this offence before, you will be fined heavily and possibly taken to court for fraud with conspiracy or fraud with intent, the first of the two can land you with upto 7 years in prison.

Hope this helps, my advice is pay the out of court settlement fee if its offered.

 

[Stigy]

Would the previous "event" be applicable when, and if, the Magistrates ask whether there have been any "previous convictions"?
And would they then take that into account in their consideration of their treatment of this "event"?

The prosecutor for the train company will enlighten the Magistrates/District Judge to your previous convictions with them (they can only refer to previous convictions with themselves, not other companies) once they have found you guilty of the offence and they (Magistrates/District Judge) will certainly take this in to account for sentencing. Note that the Prosecutor cannot refer to previous convictions prior to sentencing as this would be seen as 'influencing' the bench, and to be honest if it was allowed to happen, human nature dictates that it would probably succeed and the magistrates/DJ would be suitably influenced....

 

[zay10]

Hi Silks100,

What was the outcome..ive found myself in the same situation?

 

[Greenback]

I'm afraid that the Op hasn't returned to let us know what, if anything, has happened. This may be because there is nothing to report, or it could be because they don't want to. It's pretty common not to be updated as to the outcome of a situation.

Can I suggest that you start a new thread in this section, and give as much detail as you can about what happened.

 

[amateur]

Sandwich ticketing .

I've heard of doughnuting. What's sandwich ticketing?

 

[miami]

I've heard of doughnuting. What's sandwich ticketing?

It's when you do it on the subway