2A55 2150 SO Newcastle-Middlesbrough

[Frothy]

Hi,

I was on this train last night, expecting just one 142. Turns out it was 2x142. Train was still packed to the rafters, BTP were booking drunk minors left right and centre, drunk adults were being very drunk, etc, etc. Basically you didn't want to be standing. A lot of people were standing. Also, one of the sets of doors was broken. We left Newcastle 9 minutes late, got into Durham 13 late (somehow, I really have no idea).
Point is the train was really full, and was the last train back that night to anywhere south of Newcastle, which at 2150 on Saturday is early for a route where people are very likely to want late trains. It's also one of only two Northern rail services to go down that way each week.
I was wondering if the reason Northern don't run services any later (they have the trains) is because people just get so drunk and they're a pain to control? The guard looked pretty sturdy but he didn't look too happy. They have to run that one train because I'd imagine it's in their franchise specification, although I can't find it.
Does anyone have a history of the service? Did it ever run via the Stillington line?
More trains!
Thank you.

 

[Darandio]

Does anyone have a history of the service? Did it ever run via the Stillington line?

It's always been via Darlington as far as I can remember.

In terms of running any later, it won't be anything to do with "drunk people", more to do with the fact that things like Middlesbrough box will probably be closed after 23:30 or so.

 

[SGS]

It's always suprised me how early services finish on Saturdays from Newcastle. After 2152 (the train to Prudhoe), there aren't any trains to anywhere! The station's not the greatest place to be at that time, and having seen the 2150 Middlesbrough depart a few times, as a two-car unit, I was always glad I wasn't travelling. It was heaving!

 

[AlexS]

I believe there was a late night TPX service to Manchester or Liverpool but it was withdrawn/started from York instead due to the behaviour of the passengers on board.

Why on earth would a TOC want to cater for a train that's effectively going to be full of scumbags wrecking it?

Let them pay for a taxi or walk.

 

[Frothy]

I believe there was a late night TPX service to Manchester or Liverpool but it was withdrawn/started from York instead due to the behaviour of the passengers on board.

Why on earth would a TOC want to cater for a train that's effectively going to be full of scumbags wrecking it?

Let them pay for a taxi or walk.

Oh, so do you think that there are no later trains because they would be full of drunk people?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In terms of running any later, it won't be anything to do with "drunk people", more to do with the fact that things like Middlesbrough box will probably be closed after 23:30 or so.

I'm pretty sure I remember a late night Newcastle-Darlington service last year, though? What happened to that?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm pretty sure I remember a late night Newcastle-Darlington service last year, though? What happened to that?

Newcastle to Darlington is not under the control of Middlesbrough box so would not be affected by that closing. The ECML is a 24 hour railway (in general terms at least, obviously engineering work does occasionally close parts of it).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe there was a late night TPX service to Manchester or Liverpool but it was withdrawn/started from York instead due to the behaviour of the passengers on board.

Why on earth would a TOC want to cater for a train that's effectively going to be full of scumbags wrecking it?

Let them pay for a taxi or walk.

I believe similar reasons are why the Wigan-Kirkby line is now shut after 2000 all week (no Sunday service), mind you that was back in the 1980s!

 

[MCW]

drunk adults were being very drunk

that's typically what they do when they are under the influence of alcohol lol

Why on earth would a TOC want to cater for a train that's effectively going to be full of scumbags wrecking it?

Let them pay for a taxi or walk.

Have to look at it from differing perspectives mate, both you and I know that some trains run as a positioning move or as a diagram to reduce dead running back to depot. It could just be a matter of that, Easier to make a few quid than to lose money running empty units about.

I do agree though, Its the same on buses. I wouldn't run a bus service just for drunks to get violent and wreck the vehicle. Considering the amount of money that these people spend on Booze etc one would have thought that they could afford an overnight stay in a cheapy hotel and go home the following morning.

 

[Darandio]

Have to look at it from differing perspectives mate, both you and I know that some trains run as a positioning move or as a diagram to reduce dead running back to depot. It could just be a matter of that, Easier to make a few quid than to lose money running empty units about.

By that logic, they could run a later service from Middlesbrough to Darlington given it runs as ECS after the Newcastle journey.

Of course it doesn't work like that, and I know what you were getting at.

 

[MCW]

By that logic, they could run a later service from Middlesbrough to Darlington given it runs as ECS after the Newcastle journey.

Of course it doesn't work like that, and I know what you were getting at.

even so, perhaps its a deliberate move? that way they can say they do have a Night Service and it then means that the stations are clear of drunkards for the ECS move or something???

 

[transmanche]

I believe there was a late night TPX service to Manchester or Liverpool but it was withdrawn/started from York instead due to the behaviour of the passengers on board.

That late night TPE service departed at approx 3am though.

 

[Frothy]

Should I send an email to Northern asking them if they could consider putting on a later train? Y/N

 

[MCW]

Should I send an email to Northern asking them if they could consider putting on a later train? Y/N

Upto you, if you have the time and have a strong feeling that an extra service could improve the situation at hand go for it. I still do public transport campaigning for Leicester Buses when I have the time and my experience from that has taught me that if you don't say anything you will never know what will happen. If you ask and they say no, then you have an answer for the present time.

I'm for you writing to them just to see what their response is.

 

[cuccir]

I remember that a friend contacted TransPennineExpress when the late night service was withdrawn (2005 or 2006 I think) and they put it down to a mixture of staffing/stock difficulties, along with drunken behaviour.

It is very poor that the last service south of Newcastle during the week is at 22:45 and at the weekend is at 21:50. It certainly stops people travelling to Newcastle to go to concerts/theater/pub who otherwise would and I'm sure there'd be a market for (say) a 23:30 train south to Darlington (and possibly beyond...) all nights. The late trains are so early that you can't even go to the cinema unless it's a short film or a relatively early start!

As always, the problems here are caused by a minority, but you only need one group of 4 people to make a mess/get violent every two weeks or so to wipe out any financial advantage to running these services. However, I'd certainly be interested in seeing Northern's response to any question on this!

 

[tbtc]

I think that Saturday's service may have been affected by the teatime football in Newcastle - credit to Northern for putting on an extra unit to cope with demand.

 

[Frothy]

To whom it may concern,

I was travelling on the 2150 Newcastle to Middlesbrough service last Saturday (27/4) from Newcastle. The service was extremely busy and there was a lot of inappropriate and drunken behaviour on board. I can only give my respect to the guard for his control of the situation.
I would appreciate if you could pass on my thanks to the guard and to the relevant operations department for providing an extra unit.

However, this service is very early for a route where there is certainly demand for a later train.
Would you consider putting on an extra service on Saturdays only, from Newcastle to Darlington at around 2330, to cope with demand?
If not, why would this be impractical?
As far as I understand,
-Rolling stock is available.
-The line involved is open at this time of the evening.
-This is a service which would be well-patronised.

If you feel ill-prepared to answer this question, I would appreciate very much if you could pass it on to someone who knows more about the issues involved.

Kind regards,

Frothy

Awaiting a reply. Really, I should be revising for exams instead of doing this.

 

[Frothy]

@ Frothy - what was so inappropriate about the behaviour? Was it just rowdy behaviour or something worse?

Oh it wasn't that bad, I just put it there to grab their attention. It wasn't even rowdy, and most of the drunk passengers didn't get as far as the train. It was just really awkward. Mostly a few women had had too much and were rubbing up against some other passengers. Not that the guard would know as he was in the other set.

 

[MCW]

Awaiting a reply. Really, I should be revising for exams instead of doing this.

Well written and to the point, I like that!

 

[MCR247]

Awaiting a reply. Really, I should be revising for exams instead of doing this.

I really should be revising for exams instead of being on here

 

[NSE]

Add me to that list as well

 

[Anvil1984]

I dont think the staff would be up to run any extra services, you just have to look at the reputation of the "late" services already. 1925 and 2118 Newcastle to Carlisle services need police escorts at least to Hexham. Last week a few passengers were arrested for drunk and disorderly (1 CS sprayed), 1930 Newcastle to Boro via the Coast is not pleasent and 2150 down ECML is packed but as its 2 x 142s if something goes off in front set we're knackered and of course revenue can be intimidating especially when EC decide to leave the barriers open.

One solution would be dry trains but that just pushes the problem onto the train before. Ideally if anyone was going to run a later service it should be TPE or XC (Northern only run one service train a day down ECML) at least for everyones safety they have CCTV etc and a long enough train to accomodate everyone

 

[NSE]

A dry train is one with no alcohol allowed on board, correct? if so, running a dry train at night is probably not gonna make much difference as people will already be drunk and able to cause trouble without drinking anymore

 

[khib70]

Slightly OT, but my friend had occasion to travel on the last train from York to Leeds on Saturday night. He reckons it was about the worst public transport experience of his life. (And he's well travelled, including the "third world".

The "highlight" of this journey from Hell was the fact that the unit's toilet door was jammed open. This did not deter squads of people from using it, including females.

Not a recommended journey, apart possibly for students of anatomy....

 

[MCW]

I dont think the staff would be up to run any extra services, you just have to look at the reputation of the "late" services already. 1925 and 2118 Newcastle to Carlisle services need police escorts at least to Hexham. Last week a few passengers were arrested for drunk and disorderly (1 CS sprayed), 1930 Newcastle to Boro via the Coast is not pleasent and 2150 down ECML is packed but as its 2 x 142s if something goes off in front set we're knackered and of course revenue can be intimidating especially when EC decide to leave the barriers open.

One solution would be dry trains but that just pushes the problem onto the train before. Ideally if anyone was going to run a later service it should be TPE or XC (Northern only run one service train a day down ECML) at least for everyones safety they have CCTV etc and a long enough train to accomodate everyone

Well, if they paid staff time and a half or double time as standard for working those extra services, if they came into fruition, I dare say it might change some of their minds.

Here's an idea though, however i know it would never happen... they should have two 142 units or a 156 and a 153 coupled together. Everyone who has consumed alcohol is put into one unit, all the sober passengers can go in the other, two train managers, one in each unit and away you go, that way if there is an issue it won't affect other passengers.

 

[Darandio]

Here's an idea though, however i know it would never happen... they should have two 142 units or a 156 and a 153 coupled together. Everyone who has consumed alcohol is put into one unit, all the sober passengers can go in the other, two train managers, one in each unit and away you go, that way if there is an issue it won't affect other passengers.

Breathalysers at the door before entry, I like it.

 

[Anvil1984]

Well, if they paid staff time and a half or double time as standard for working those extra services, if they came into fruition, I dare say it might change some of their minds.

Here's an idea though, however i know it would never happen... they should have two 142 units or a 156 and a 153 coupled together. Everyone who has consumed alcohol is put into one unit, all the sober passengers can go in the other, two train managers, one in each unit and away you go, that way if there is an issue it won't affect other passengers.

As a member of staff who would have to work it I can tell you this not the case. Our safety and the passengers can not be bought for time and a half or any money. When we have services leaving destinations from Newcastle ar half 7 where passengers are getting assuqlted / arrested / cs sprayed committing sexual acts in the middle of the coach qnd that is just the last month. We only have the BTP here our local TOC security team are in Leeds, the station barriers are wide open and we have no CCTV on board to catch any troublemakers later on. No thank you

 

[MCW]

As a member of staff who would have to work it I can tell you this not the case. Our safety and the passengers can not be bought for time and a half or any money. When we have services leaving destinations from Newcastle ar half 7 where passengers are getting assuqlted / arrested / cs sprayed committing sexual acts in the middle of the coach qnd that is just the last month. We only have the BTP here our local TOC security team are in Leeds, the station barriers are wide open and we have no CCTV on board to catch any troublemakers later on. No thank you

I wasn't aware that the situation was that bad tbh. I expected assault and foul language but no sexual assaults... that is a step too far but now you have made the situation clearer then I'm with you mate!

 

[Anvil1984]

I wouldnt say sexual assaults. Just having sex or sexual acts in middle of the coach.

 

[MCW]

I wouldnt say sexual assaults. Just having sex or sexual acts in middle of the coach.

Still high up on the disgusting behaviour list.

 

[DarloRich]

I fundamentally disagree with, and am disgusted by, many of the points made by the majority of posters on this thread.

For reasons i shall not go into i am not saying anymore other than the following points:

I have used this train many, many times and not ONCE been involved in damaging , destroying, or in any way interfering with the train or any of the passenger or staff.

For the VAST majority of the people on that train their only crime, and for many of you it seems to be a crime, is to have gone for a night out, taken some drink and expected thew Railway to get them home.