225s upgrade

[philjo]

The latest issue of Rail reports (Front cover headline) that the EC 225s are to be upgraded. Double pantographs would be fitted to the class 91s to make them more reliable and less prone to failure in service. The MK4s will be refurbished - due in 2014 when the Mallard refurbishment will be 10 years old.

 

[Aictos]

The latest issue of Rail reports (Front cover headline) that the EC 225s are to be upgraded. Double pantographs would be fitted to the class 91s to make them more reliable and less prone to failure in service. The MK4s will be refurbished - due in 2014 when the Mallard refurbishment will be 10 years old.

Are we talking about a pantograph similar to this one?

Photo here

Or will it just be the same pantograph that they use but two of them instead of the one?

 

[Monty]

I think they will have two pantograph's fitted when the locomotives are overhauled.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I think they will have two pantograph's fitted when the locomotives are overhauled.

Or has the wrong end of the stick been grasped totally, and is it a reference to some sort of modification to the pan head carbons?

 

[captainbigun]

It's a pair of BW high speed pans on a standard pan footprint. It will sit in the same place but the fibreglass roof section will be replaced to allow the extra pan.

The two pans will sit elbows out (pan heads in). It is an entirely new design.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is anything else being done to the 91s or is it just the extra pantograph?

 

[captainbigun]

That is entirely dependant on other discussions around the longer term plans for the EC. I'm not sure that a conclusion has been reached as yet.

 

[Wath Yard]

So does this mean the 91s and Mk IVs will still be around for a while and the IEP option to replace them won't be taken up?

 

[captainbigun]

All down to cost....

 

[Aictos]

It's a pair of BW high speed pans on a standard pan footprint. It will sit in the same place but the fibreglass roof section will be replaced to allow the extra pan.

The two pans will sit elbows out (pan heads in). It is an entirely new design.

Pardon me for asking this but what difference does having two pantographs provide on locomotives?

 

[ash39]

That's going to look strange!

Works on an Class 92 as they are essentially symetrical, I think it's going to look unusual with a pantograph at the sharp end, if they do go down this route.

From an operational point of view, will they share the usage so that they wear evenly or will they use the current one and keep the additional one in case of failure? What's the current procedure on Pendolinos etc?

 

[captainbigun]

Pardon me for asking this but what difference does having two pantographs provide on locomotives?

If you lose one due to an ADD activation, which the 91s suffer from due to various infrastructure and atmospheric conditions that lead to carbon damage, then you have another one to get you home.

 

[ash39]

Pardon me for asking this but what difference does having two pantographs provide on locomotives?

Presumably increased reliability due to having a 'spare' pantograph. I read somewhere the carbon heads only last 6-9 months, which is still incredible when you consider the mileage involved, but if one goes prematurely, a spare one will keep it in service until it can be replaced.

Unless I've understood incorrectly and they are both to be used at the same time, which would be unusual in this country

 

[captainbigun]

That's going to look strange!

Works on an Class 92 as they are essentially symetrical, I think it's going to look unusual with a pantograph at the sharp end, if they do go down this route.

From an operational point of view, will they share the usage so that they wear evenly or will they use the current one and keep the additional one in case of failure? What's the current procedure on Pendolinos etc?

As above, it is not two completely separate pans, it's a new design on the same footprint as the existing pan. So location remains unchanged.

As for usage, that remains to be seen, there will be significant testing before it is rolled out across the fleet.
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Presumably increased reliability due to having a 'spare' pantograph. I read somewhere the carbon heads only last 6-9 months, which is still incredible when you consider the mileage involved, but if one goes prematurely, a spare one will keep it in service until it can be replaced.

6-9 months? You'd be lucky to get 6-9 weeks.

 

[ash39]

I did misunderstand then! That will be interesting to see. Will have to pick up Rail tomorrow and have a proper read.

Must have been referring to a different part to the heads then, I read about something needing replacing every 6-9 months.

 

[ukrob]

From an operational point of view, will they share the usage so that they wear evenly or will they use the current one and keep the additional one in case of failure? What's the current procedure on Pendolinos etc?

A Pendolino uses the rear pan under normal circumstances.

 

[tbtc]

The Mallard refurbs were ten years old? Man, I feel ancient!

 

[jon0844]

They started then, and I believe it took a while for them all to be done.

I remember being excited to see one as I walked along the platforms at King's Cross from my (Wagn) train shortly after I began commuting daily, so it also seems weird to me to be hearing of another refurb already!

 

[junglejames]

The Mallard refurbs were ten years old? Man, I feel ancient!

Doesnt time fly! I know who it was came up with the Mallard name for the newly refurbished sets.

You see a few scuff marks here and there, but on the whole, they still look good when kept clean. I see no need in replacing the seats. Perhaps just recover them?

 

[dstrat]

Interesting about 225 upgrade.

But agreed regarding the interior revamp - sounds like a waste of time, the interior has got to be amongst the highest rated on the network as it is. They just need to put a button on the sodding sliding doors rather than using a sensor! Sometimes the doors seem possessed and having your knee hanging out on the seats nearest to it or something seems to trigger them.

Experience has shown its quite annoying after the 79th time of hearing the door open and the spazzy clicking sound it makes after when you are trying to get a bit of kip.

 

[Yew]

Doesnt time fly! I know who it was came up with the Mallard name for the newly refurbished sets.

You see a few scuff marks here and there, but on the whole, they still look good when kept clean. I see no need in replacing the seats. Perhaps just recover them?

Its not bad, but they are looking a little grubby in places. Realistically an interior refresh is all thats needed, or maybe even jst adeep clean. However if a TOC wants to refurbish its stock before it becomes awful, I'm happy with that.

Maybe we could see the IEP seating installed in, to try and make it look like a uniform fleet?

 

[tbtc]

Doesnt time fly! I know who it was came up with the Mallard name for the newly refurbished sets.

You see a few scuff marks here and there, but on the whole, they still look good when kept clean. I see no need in replacing the seats. Perhaps just recover them?

Totally agreed - I can't argue with a little refresh but they've lasted well (and not dated either)

 

[themiller]

As above, it is not two completely separate pans, it's a new design on the same footprint as the existing pan. So location remains unchanged.

As for usage, that remains to be seen, there will be significant testing before it is rolled out across the fleet.
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6-9 months? You'd be lucky to get 6-9 weeks.

It's 2 independant pans mounted on the same insulator footprint but, as the elbows of the pans stick outwards from their joint mounting, the roof of the loco will need to be modified to provide clearance. Presumably the trailing pan will be in use in normal service so that, if damaged, it does not inflict damage onto the spare (leading) pan.

 

[captainbigun]

It's 2 independant pans mounted on the same insulator footprint but, as the elbows of the pans stick outwards from their joint mounting, the roof of the loco will need to be modified to provide clearance. Presumably the trailing pan will be in use in normal service so that, if damaged, it does not inflict damage onto the spare (leading) pan.

Yes chap, all on the previous page.

Re pan usage, yes, you'd assume so, but there will need to be aerodynamic testing to see what's what.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Im guessing the interior work will be new carpets, seat covers, internal repaint and clean. A change to push button internal door opperation would be good but unlikely!

 

[HSTEd]

Push button internal doors would likely cause issues for staff moving around the train with coffee and tea et al since they will need a free hand.

And I haven't ever had that much trouble with the sensors on 225s....

 

[Pumbaa]

Push button internal doors would likely cause issues for staff moving around the train with coffee and tea et al since they will need a free hand.

They manage okay on the WC and XC and the MML. The 222s have foot buttons too for staff who don't have free hands.

 

[AndyLandy]

So does this mean the 91s and Mk IVs will still be around for a while and the IEP option to replace them won't be taken up?

I heard it suggested that IEPs would be ordered for the ECML so that the IC225 sets could be cascaded to the MML. Certainly something will need to be provided for MML electrification (assuming it all happens according to plan)

 

[DarloRich]

Interesting about 225 upgrade.

But agreed regarding the interior revamp - sounds like a waste of time, the interior has got to be amongst the highest rated on the network as it is. They just need to put a button on the sodding sliding doors rather than using a sensor! Sometimes the doors seem possessed and having your knee hanging out on the seats nearest to it or something seems to trigger them.

Experience has shown its quite annoying after the 79th time of hearing the door open and the spazzy clicking sound it makes after when you are trying to get a bit of kip.

Im guessing the interior work will be new carpets, seat covers, internal repaint and clean. A change to push button internal door opperation would be good but unlikely!

Eh? Have you tried pressing those sodding buttons on the doors when you have an arm full of teas and coffees? It can’t be done. Madness I tell you. :roll:

They had push buttons on the internal doors when first built but they were changed to the much more sensible foot pad sensors after a period in operation.

I guess the work will be rolled up into the standard 10 year vehicle overhaul. Did Wabtec do the Mallard conversion works at Doncaster?

 

[jopsuk]

I know it won't happen, but I'd like to see to standardisation with the HSTs- convert coach K into a Standard coach G, and turn H around to be a 1st class coach J. Standardise the seat layout, at least of the reservable seats.