21 remaining Class 390 9 carriages extended into 11 carriages

[James Kevill]

The new West Coast franchise and Angel Trains could order the new 42 carriages built by Alstom to extend the 21 remaining Class 390/0 Pendolino 9 carriages into 11 carriages. Hopefully to tackle overcrowding and possibly renumbering the Class 390/0s into 390/1s and form the uniform fleets.

 

[Ianno87]

The new West Coast franchise and Angel Trains could order the new 42 carriages built by Alstom to extend the 21 remaining Class 390/0 Pendolino 9 carriages into 11 carriages. Hopefully to tackle overcrowding and possibly renumbering the Class 390/0s into 390/1s and form the uniform fleets.

Not much point when HS2 is on the near horizon.

Virgin as it stands seem quite good at matching 9 car and 11 car diagrams to demand anyway.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Also would Alstom still retain the jigs to construct these earlier design Pendolino cars after several years of non production?

 

[Bald Rick]

Also would Alstom still retain the jigs to construct these earlier design Pendolino cars after several years of non production?

No they don’t. Someone could make some, but that then gets expensive.

 

[Ash Bridge]

No they don’t. Someone could make some, but that then gets expensive.

Thanks for confirming. So pretty much a non-starter then when also taking into account that most of these trainsets are now past their half life stage already.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Isn't there also an issue that the design standards have changed and they would no longer be compliant for new build?

What might make more sense would be adding a few more trains to the new build order and then heavily rebuilding* the vehicles from some of the existing 9 car sets to make the rest of the 9 car sets 11 cars - but then you'll have the issue of there being a few spare driving cars sitting around afterwards.


*Remember, each vehicle is pretty much individual for where it is in the train.

 

[JonathanH]

Hopefully to tackle overcrowding

Is there actually any evidence of overcrowding on 9-car Pendolinos (outside of times of disruption) since they converted the 696xx coach to standard class?

Perhaps the OP should post specific examples of overcrowding they have experienced on 9-car Pendolinos in the last year.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Would converting the existing 11 car sets into 10 cars and then moving some of the "Coach U"s into some of the existing 9 car sets work?

 

[Mag_seven]

No they don’t. Someone could make some, but that then gets expensive.

Which would probably deem it uneconomic. A completely new build to modern design standards is what is required.

 

[JonathanH]

Would converting the existing 11 car sets into 10 cars and then moving some of the "Coach U"s into some of the existing 9 car sets work?

What problem are you trying to solve? What about those services which need 11 coaches?

Train fleets do not have to have one single formation if the planners are adept at allocating the right trains to the right services.

 

[43096]

The new West Coast franchise and Angel Trains could order the new 42 carriages built by Alstom to extend the 21 remaining Class 390/0 Pendolino 9 carriages into 11 carriages. Hopefully to tackle overcrowding and possibly renumbering the Class 390/0s into 390/1s and form the uniform fleets.

Could, but aren’t. End of discussion.

 

[The Ham]

IIRC there's 3 transformers in an 11 coach 390 and 2 in a 9 coach and in theory 1 in a 5 coach but 2 in a 6 coach. As such that rules out shuffling around coaches or shortening some units to 6 to run in pairs to allow others to run as 11 coach units.

You could create 2 x 11 coach units by using the transformer coaches and two other coaches from a 9 coach unit. Leaving the two driving vehicles and 3 other coaches.

You could then build a new fleet of 7*11 coach of new tilting trains but such an order would be small and therefore expensive.

Such a change would likely only be required of HS2 isn't built at all.

Where HS2 is built the more likely outcome is scraping 3 of the coaches from the 9 coach units to create a fleet of 21*6 coach units which could be used to run services which split/joined to serve more places, but only required 1 path out of London on the WCML, or to better match loading capacity.

 

[JonathanH]

I accept that this is 'speculative ideas' but to what extent (preferably with specific examples) is overcrowding on 9-car services actually a problem?

 

[Ianno87]

I accept that this is 'speculative ideas' but to what extent (preferably with specific examples) is overcrowding on 9-car services actually a problem?

In general, no. 9/11 car allocation is done based on demand to a large extent, with some price management using Advances to help.

 

[Bevan Price]

I accept that this is 'speculative ideas' but to what extent (preferably with specific examples) is overcrowding on 9-car services actually a problem?

Some 9 coach 390s definitely get overcrowded.

They could (but won't) create more standard class space by reducing all Pendos to only two coaches being 1st Class.

It would also help a bit if all 390s had at least two "unreserved" standard class coaches - preferably located next to each other, and not including Coach C, which contains the shop has only just over 40 seats. That might also improve station dwell times as passengers would spend less time looking for vacant seats (and thereby blocking gangways & doorways.)

 

[VT 390]

Some 9 coach 390s definitely get overcrowded.

They could (but won't) create more standard class space by reducing all Pendos to only two coaches being 1st Class.

It would also help a bit if all 390s had at least two "unreserved" standard class coaches - preferably located next to each other, and not including Coach C, which contains the shop has only just over 40 seats. That might also improve station dwell times as passengers would spend less time looking for vacant seats (and thereby blocking gangways & doorways.)

First class can get very busy as well though so 2 coaches might just be enougth if they were full coaches but if 1 is the end coach with the kitchen then it is really only about 1 and a third.
I agree with at least 2 unreserved standard coaches, especially as on 9 coach sets it is only coach C which also contains the shop, but does it not make sense for them NOT to be next to each other as would this not help to spread passengers along the platform instead of all waiting in one area?

 

[MalaiseForever]

Is there actually any evidence of overcrowding on 9-car Pendolinos (outside of times of disruption) since they converted the 696xx coach to standard class?

Perhaps the OP should post specific examples of overcrowding they have experienced on 9-car Pendolinos in the last year.

1755 off Manchester for Euston is very busy when a 9 car. Granted not full and standing but not a particularly comfortable journey.