2020 US Presidential Election

[61653 HTAFC]

If the Dems do indeed take full control, they've lost their fig-leaf for inaction now. Hard to blame the lack of change on Mitch McConnell when you control the House and Senate. Neither Biden nor Harris are known for being radical lefties despite what No.45 might say.

The Dems are more likely to descend into civil war than the GOP, although the grassroots activists are already annoyed with AOC not fulfilling her promise to demand a vote on Medicare4All in return for supporting Pelosi as Speaker... it seems the corporatists have already got to her!

If nothing else, it shows though that if you illegitimately challenge the process, the process may well bite back. The Donald will continue to spout off on Twitter and probably end up getting a TV gig on Fox or Sinclair. He will probably also end up with some garish and ostentatious Presidential Library somewhere complete with big gold "TRUMP" lettering.

 

[Domh245]

or 50'000 vote in one but not the other,.

I think that's the far more likely cause. In the same way that the mythic "Lib Dem - UKIP swing" wasn't a real effect, I don't think we're seeing a bunch of swing voters here

Some quick number crunching suggests about a 60% turnout with nearly 3 million not voting. A scenario where people were voting Biden as a "he's not trump" vote but didn't vote in this runoff, and Republicans who didn't vote in November but have turned out this time is entirely plausible

 

[berneyarms]

Its a win, that all I can say but to say mega? In the main race the winner is only leading by 15'000 just a little bit more than Biden win back in November. Even stranger people were clearly switching votes between the two races. The margins of victory are so small its makes it possible for them to start losing races rather easily in 2 years time.

I don't expect that number for the VP-Elect to be enormous, because I can see at least 2-3 democrats senates not voting for any radical policy's. I think Biden will go back to the centre for most of his policy which will PEE - OFF AOC, I think both parties are heading for civil war.

The majority of Democrats are still centre-left. I’m not sure that AOC is the lifeblood of the party.

Both parties need to calm things down, and regain politics from the more extreme fringes.

The fact that US politics is being dictated by conspiracy theories right now is disturbing as it is having knock on effects across the globe.

The centre ground needs to reassert itself - that’s not going to be easy.

 

[najaB]

The Dems are more likely to descend into civil war than the GOP, although the grassroots activists are already annoyed with AOC not fulfilling her promise to demand a vote on Medicare4All in return for supporting Pelosi as Speaker... it seems the corporatists have already got to her

As I noted above though, the Democratic party is going to be fighting over matters of policy, which is less of an issue than the GOP fight which continues to be over facts vs alternative facts.

He will probably also end up with some garish and ostentatious Presidential Library somewhere complete with big gold "TRUMP" lettering.

Given that they are privately funded I couldn't care less what he does or does not end up with wrt his presidential library. Though, there's some irony to the idea of a Trump library given that he won't* read.

*Or can't!

 

[Typhoon]

Given that they are privately funded I couldn't care less what he does or does not end up with wrt his presidential library. Though, there's some irony to the idea of a Trump library given that he won't* read.

*Or can't!

Picture books? Certainly no need for a non-fiction section!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As I noted above though, the Democratic party is going to be fighting over matters of policy, which is less of an issue than the GOP fight which continues to be over facts vs alternative facts.
Given that they are privately funded I couldn't care less what he does or does not end up with wrt his presidential library. Though, there's some irony to the idea of a Trump library given that he won't* read.

*Or can't!

They may be privately funded, but wasn't there a (minor by post-Trump standards) scandal over President Obama's funding streams for his own Presidential Library? Or am I just remembering a storyline from the finale of Veep?

Agree there's a certain irony about the very idea of a Trump Presidential Library... perhaps a Presidential Casino would be more appropriate!

 

[birchesgreen]

President Golf Course, books available on how to cheat.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2021 ==

The Dems are more likely to descend into civil war than the GOP, although the grassroots activists are already annoyed with AOC not fulfilling her promise to demand a vote on Medicare4All in return for supporting Pelosi as Speaker... it seems the corporatists have already got to her!

Parties in power seldom descend into full civil war (the Tories under Brexit are an exception of course), things tend to be kept under a lid until the party is out of power.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The BBC article on why so many Republican voters are convinced the Democrats stole the election result makes for depressing reading, if only to underline the unbelievable ignorance and lack of reasoned thought, seemingly endemic to some people.

The corral fence businessman is a case in point as well - the whole ‘I earn my money and if I give any of it away through taxation it’s socialism’ just makes me depressed. I wonder how southern states would feel if they were to tax at a state-mandated level and not receive any federal subsidy. Why does the US tax at a federal level?

 

[nlogax]

Let's not forget what the purpose of a presidential library is. For Trump I'd suggest a rotting garden shed just holding a usb drive containing four years of his tweets.

 

[najaB]

Why does the US tax at a federal level?

To fund the Federal government.

 

[Gloster]

I was looking at the Georgia race from time to time in the early hours of the morning (our time). Making allowances for a small iPad screen and clumsy fingers it looked as though at times the GOP candidates were leading because small, predominately rural districts which tend to vote Republican had got their results in. The Democrats were catching up as the results came in from larger urban ones, such as Fulton County. Are we going to see more ‘Stop the vote‘ claims and legal challenges like after the Presidential election, because Republicans can’t/won’t accept that is how the demographics work?

 

[najaB]

Are we going to see more ‘Stop the vote‘ claims and legal challenges like after the Presidential election, because Republicans can’t/won’t accept that is how the demographics work?

Sadly, I expect so.

 

[birchesgreen]

Interesting to see Trump throwing Pence under the bus already, when he mentioned the VP at his latest rally there were very audible boos and jeers when he said Pence's name.

 

[nlogax]

Fun starts at 6pm. This is where the rubber meets the road - either Pence does the right thing and finally nukes his relationship with Trump or he does the wrong thing and helps Trump break the constitution and the country. I know what my money's on.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

To fund the Federal government.

Is it a separate taxation process to the state taxes? My salary only has one deduction (well two if you allow for National Insurance) but that is split up to fund national government, local services etc. I realise in the U.K. it’s managed ‘top down’ but surely a better way in US would be to tax everyone once and administer it from ‘bottom up’? Then each state could determine how much contribution they make to the federal budget and therefore how much they are entitled to in return support.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2021 ==

Fun starts at 6pm. This is where the rubber meets the road - either Pence does the right thing and finally nukes his relationship with Trump or he does the wrong thing and helps Trump break the constitution and the country. I know what my money's on.

Which scenario helps Mike Pence the most? That is the way politicians think.

 

[nlogax]

Which scenario helps Mike Pence the most? That is the way politicians think.

If Pence wants to stay in mainstream politics then he'll adhere to the constitution and stay away from looking to change the result.

 

[Domh245]

Fun starts at 6pm. This is where the rubber meets the road - either Pence does the right thing and finally nukes his relationship with Trump or he does the wrong thing and helps Trump break the constitution and the country. I know what my money's on.

Is that when the senate is certifying the election result?

 

[Darandio]

Is that when the senate is certifying the election result?

It's when both houses of congress convene but it could drag on all night if any member objects to a result. This normally has to be debated under a time limit of two hours but social distancing may cause issues by limiting the amount of people allowed at one time.

 

[Cowley]

As I noted above though, the Democratic party is going to be fighting over matters of policy, which is less of an issue than the GOP fight which continues to be over facts vs alternative facts.

Just saw this and quite liked it:

2 Republicans die and go to heaven. They ask God if he'd answer one question. "Of course" God says. They ask how the Democrats rigged the election in 2020. "It wasn't rigged" God replied. Republicans look at one another and say "This conspiracy goes higher than we thought!"

 

[158756]

As I noted above though, the Democratic party is going to be fighting over matters of policy, which is less of an issue than the GOP fight which continues to be over facts vs alternative facts.

By the time the next election comes round though they'll probably be fighting over the lack of action on any policy. Assuming they have actually won both seats in Georgia, they have exactly half the Senate plus the Vice President's casting vote. If one single senator disagrees on anything, it won't happen. Possibly more importantly, most legislation can be blocked unless 60 senators support it, and right now if Democrats said the sky was blue Republicans would insist it was pink. Promising to do anything in Congress other than appoint judges is a very dangerous game.

 

[DelW]

Let's not forget what the purpose of a presidential library is. For Trump I'd suggest a rotting garden shed just holding a usb drive containing four years of his tweets.

I'd go for a room with rubber lined walls, containing him and a large pram full of toys. That should keep him busy once his phone had been permanently removed.

The other requirement would be the door being kept locked for at least the next four years.

 

[nlogax]

I'd go for a room with rubber lined walls, containing him and a large pram full of toys. That should keep him busy once his phone had been permanently removed.

The other requirement would be the door being kept locked for at least the next four years.

Don't forget to chuck in some crayons so he can pretend to sign more executive orders. Actually now that I think about it maybe an Etch-a-Sketch instead?

EC vote counting and certification in the Senate is about to begin. You can watch it live at

 

[Darandio]

Trump has just been doing a speech outside the White House. Gems included:

the crowd, which numbers in the thousands, "came from all over the world" and that the media is not showing the real size of the crowd.

"We will never concede," Trump continues, falsely claiming that he actually won by a larger margin against Biden than he did in 2016 against Hillary Clinton.

"If Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election,"

On the latter, Trump genuinely still believes Pence has the power to block any certification even though he actually can't.

 

[nlogax]

Ooof..well, there it is for Trump. He's toast.

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...gress-he-lacks-unilateral-authority-to-reject

Vice President Pence, in a letter to Congress on Wednesday, said he does not believe he has the “unilateral authority” to reject electoral votes, dealing a final blow to President Trump’s push for Pence to overturn the election result.

The letter comes just before Pence is set to preside over a joint session of Congress, where lawmakers will affirm Joe Biden as the next president.

 

[Darandio]

And the objections begin.......

 

[Domh245]

And the objections begin.......

I think I've only ever watched debates in the US house on two occasions, and both times I've tuned in to see a republican raving about something ridiculous in an aggressive tone with some novelty props and instantly turned off again. For all the faults of Westminster, at least it's not Washington

 

[Darandio]

I think I've only ever watched debates in the US house on two occasions, and both times I've tuned in to see a republican raving about something ridiculous in an aggressive tone with some novelty props and instantly turned off again. For all the faults of Westminster, at least it's not Washington

Did you not watch long enough to see his mask fall down at least half a dozen times? Pure comedy.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I wonder if T****’s tactic is to basically incite the US to the edge of civil war. This puts federal and state prosecutors who are building the various cases against him in a difficult position; charge him and risk triggering a violent uprising, or back down in the wider interest of peace, which will be seen as losing face (or as proof that ‘it was all lies’ etc.)

 

[Darandio]

Capital Hill now on lockdown. With Tweets earlier urging Republicans to fight and then whipping up the thousands at his rally with a bunch of lies, they are now literally trying to storm the Capitol building.

 

[dgl]

An update from BBC news, as expected Trumps supporters won't go quietly.​

​

Capitol Hill on lockdown as tensions escalate​

Capitol Police have put the US Capitol Building on lockdown amid violent clashes between police and Trump supporters, gathered to protest the 2020 election results.
Footage shows demonstrators swarming the Capitol building, breaking the temporary barrier that had been put in place ahead of today's events. US media describe some protesters climbing on parts of the Capitol building, attempting to get inside.