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2020 US Presidential Election

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21C101

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I
I need to get into that sort of business. “I’m a failure, send me money”
Just join NR then :)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Twitter, Facebook and Google are far more worried about each other and declarations from the authorities than tiny alternative platforms being used by a few more extremists. Twitter will be glad to see the back of Trump and all the extra complaints his content creates.

If, somehow, Parler becomes a threat to any of them, it'll be hours before they're bought up and the problem is solved. The chances are far higher that one of Parler's members does something silly and the entire thing comes crashing down and closes.

Alex Jones is a bigger draw to the Parler camp than a dethroned Trump anyway, and his banning from all the mainstream sites seems to have done them absolutely zero harm.
Thats what Alta Vista thought when Google Appeared.
 
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nlogax

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Sounds a lovely place (!)
I've seen the occasional post as reported by the media - it sounds like a dire hellhole that most sane people would want to run screaming from.

Decamp to whatever alternative platform alights at, boosting that platform immensely.

Which means Twitter's decision isn't straighfoward if they want to maintain their near monopoly and not facilitate a rival platform.

Similar for Youtube (google)

There's enough room for Twitter, Parler and others in that version of social media. Even Twitter have standards that they want to maintain and need to be -seen- to maintain.
 

dosxuk

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Thats what Alta Vista thought when Google Appeared.

The difference is Google now has the cash to buy and then integrate or shutdown anyone who looks like they're going to be a serious competitor. They do this constantly. Likewise Twitter and Facebook. They have such dominant platforms because they don't allow any realistic competition to exist (and hence the number of antitrust complaints knocking about).

Besides, in those days Alta Vista's (and Google's) competition was Yahoo, Ask Jeeves and AOL. Alta Vista was never as successful as any of those, and even in those days it was clear that you couldn't base a business on search, there was, and still is, no money in providing web search functionality. Google hit the jackpot by combining a fairly ok search product with a targeted advertising product in a way that nobody else had tried and then making sure nobody else gets the resources to compete.
 

birchesgreen

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There was an interesting report on Parler on one of the news channels, they asked some Trump supporters about it. It was interesting that one of them said he didn't like it as it was too much an echo chamber and it was boring because he "couldn't own the libs".
 

nlogax

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Has there been any previous instances of a President ever questioning the integrity of the Electoral College?

'President for life' was mooted by Alexander Hamilton back in the late 18th century but that idea lost in a vote. And don't forget that faithless electors have swayed overall election results stretching back to around the same time. As far as I can tell though, no president has ever done what Trump is doing and will continue to do beyond his leaving the White House a month from now.
 

hst43102

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There was an interesting report on Parler on one of the news channels, they asked some Trump supporters about it. It was interesting that one of them said he didn't like it as it was too much an echo chamber and it was boring because he "couldn't own the libs".
Echo chambers are bad for everyone.
 

jfollows

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270 might not be enough in the sense of previous elections have had faithless electors in the elections trial college. In 2016 Clinton loss 5 votes while Trump lost 2 electors. The 7 electoral college votes went to other candidates such as Bernie Sanders, Colin Powell and Rob Paul.

Imagine if this finishes 270- 268 and 3 electors that were pledged to Biden became faithless.
There weren't any faithless electors at all this time, but I was interested specifically to see what changed in Washington (state) - in 2016 there were four faithless electors there (out of the 7 in total across the country), and there's a good example of how not to enact legislation here. In 2016 three electors cast their votes for Colin Powell rather than for Hillary Clinton (and a fourth for someone else), and they were fined $1,000 each for having done so. They knew that would happen, but wanted to make their point, and their votes stood. Three then appealed against the fine, and the case went all the way to the US Supreme Court, which ruled that states have "far reaching authority" over electors, and therefore the faithless electors had to pay their fines. Further, the state then went and changed the law to enable it to replace faithless electors with alternatives who vote "properly", much more effectively making a repeat occurrence unlikely.

However, although apparently 32 states plus DC have laws against faithless electors, more than half of them don't have effective enforcement mechanisms (presumably fines which people will be willing to pay to make their point), so faithless electors could happen again, just unlikely to be in Washington state.
 
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dgl

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Well if you have got a few spare $ then Atlantic City are holding an auction, what are they auctioning you may ask? The opportunity to blow up one of trump's failed casinos!

The Independant said:
Mr Trump’s property was being used as a casino since 1984 until it shut down in 2014 and fell into a state of disrepair. The demolition work had already begun early this year but the remaining structure is set to be blown up on 29 January, just nine days after the swearing-in of the president-elect Joe Biden.
Now authorities have decided to make the destruction of the property a fundraiser. The person who will press the button will be decided through a live bidding process on 19 January, with the honour going to the highest bidder.
“Local buyers can push the button as close as safely possible,” to “implode Trump plaza for charity,” the listing said.
“Some of Atlantic City's iconic moments happened there, but on his way out, Donald Trump openly mocked Atlantic City, saying he made a lot of money and then got out,” the Associated Press quoted Mayor Marty Small as saying. “I wanted to use the demolition of this place to raise money for charity.”
The money would benefit the charity Boys & Girls Club of Atlantic City, and the mayor hopes it will raise in excess of $1m. The organisation provides after-school and summer recreation, education and career-training programmes for Atlantic City children and teens.
 

backontrack

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I'm glad Trump was unceremoniously dumped, but the fact that Biden got in goes a great deal towards offsetting that. Not that he'll be offsetting any of the US's carbon consumption (the highest per capita in the world).

I guess we're going to have to start constructing seawalls...and buying aircon units...and geoengineering the Arctic...
 

DerekC

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Trump is now apparently in a kind of personal lockdown in the White House and only meeting the real loony tunes. It sounds pretty scary - see:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ction-rudy-giuliani-martial-law-b1777197.html

A deadly virus is killing thousands of Americans each day, a record number of people are now unemployed, and Russian intelligence operatives have wormed their way into computer networks across multiple government agencies. Yet with just 30 days remaining before his successor’s swearing-in, President Donald Trump remains hunkered down in the White House, increasingly out of touch with reality in a way that is causing even those loyalists to be alarmed over what could transpire during the month left in his presidency.
With over 50 post-election lawsuits having been unceremoniously dismissed by a bevy of judges – including some of the most conservative in the country and a Supreme Court featuring three of his own appointees – and with top Republicans such as Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell having congratulated President-elect Joe Biden on his victory, an increasingly distraught soon-to-be-ex-president has found succour in the arms of a loose-knit collection of bizarre fringe figures.

“You’d be surprised who the ‘adults in the room’ are these days,” quipped one Trump confidante, employing a term once used to describe some of the steadier, more experienced foreign and domestic policy hands who once roamed the corridors of the Trump-era West Wing. The confidante later added that Trump has all but abandoned both the duties of the office he will hold for 30 more days and the aides who would otherwise be helping him carry them out. Instead, he has spent recent days ensconced in the White House residence, watching television, tweeting, and desperately dialling his phone in search of someone – anyone – who can provide him with a way to stave off the public defenestration that will come when Biden appears on the Capitol’s west front to take the oath of office.
 

Strathclyder

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37424

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Equal parts terrifying, unsurprising and totally in keeping with who he is, always has been and always will be: a pathetic excuse of a human being.
Sounds like they need to send in the people in white coats and take him to hospital for a rest.
 

DerekC

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He has popped up to refuse a couple of bills - he has actually vetoed the Defence Bill which includes a few odd things like a pay rise for all troops and an increased in funding for cybersecurity - and is threatening to do the same for the Covid Bill which is intended to be a rescue package. I guess it's a way of grabbing attention, but it seems possible that Congress will override him on the Defence Bill.
 

DelW

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That is almost a given. It had a majority of more than sixty in the House and twenty-something in the Senate.
AIUI it needs 2/3 of the votes in each chamber to overturn a presidential veto, which could be a challenge.

I hope it is overturned, mainly because of just how much that will rile Trump.

He can still do enormous damage in the next month though. Not so much "make America great again", more like "make America look like a banana republic". Not that he seems to care.

At some stage in the future, there may be a bipartisan move to limit presidential power, now that Trump has demonstrated just how disastrously it can be misused.
 

najaB

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AIUI it needs 2/3 of the votes in each chamber to overturn a presidential veto, which could be a challenge.
It was passed with more than enough votes to override the veto, no reason to expect that members will change their votes when it comes back for a second round.

"Trump's feelings matter more than the troops pay" isn't a vote winner.
 

DynamicSpirit

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At some stage in the future, there may be a bipartisan move to limit presidential power, now that Trump has demonstrated just how disastrously it can be misused.

That would be very welcome in areas to do with corruption, presidential pardons, and presidents acting in their own financial self interest - all areas where Trump has behaved appallingly. I have to admit though I hope that doesn't happen in regard to things to do with actual Government policy: These days, Congress usually gets so paralysed between conflicting interests and partisan divides that, I can imagine any move to limit what Presidents can do would be a recipe for even more US paralysis than is already the case.
 

edwin_m

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That would be very welcome in areas to do with corruption, presidential pardons, and presidents acting in their own financial self interest - all areas where Trump has behaved appallingly. I have to admit though I hope that doesn't happen in regard to things to do with actual Government policy: These days, Congress usually gets so paralysed between conflicting interests and partisan divides that, I can imagine any move to limit what Presidents can do would be a recipe for even more US paralysis than is already the case.
Yes, there may even be enough votes between Democrats wanting to prevent a future Trump and Republicans claiming that Biden will do these things too (but perhaps quietly realising that another Trump wouldn't be in their best interests).
 

nlogax

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At some stage in the future, there may be a bipartisan move to limit presidential power, now that Trump has demonstrated just how disastrously it can be misused.
Hopefully you're right. For now and the foreseeable I fear the GOP is wholly consumed by the pursuit of power and keeping true democracy in check for its own ends. I'm astonished by how much it's been kowtowing to Trump's will since he was elected, disregarding all American political norms in the process.
 

overthewater

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What is actually in the $740BN Defence bill? Also what on earth is in $900 Covid bill? IE the hidden stuff. This alone would push up the US debt by another $1.5 trillion. It clear president isn't all to blame for that always going up.

Who Trumped pardon the other day is highly questionable, and you have to wonder what on earth is going on there. I'm still expecting him to say something about Taiwan. That really would be the cat among the pidgins.
 

backontrack

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The USA has elected a new President. He'll be inaugurated midway through the month. (Also, Special Ops may end up forcibly removing Donald Trump from the White House. We'll see.)

Is Biden the American panacea? Will his administration enact groundbreaking policies in response to the climate emergency? Will the Democrats be able to pass anything at all? Will the old order of the DNC stop marginalising their most effective political operators, as they've done in order to maintain the status quo, whereby nothing, fundamentally, will change?

(Sadly, we already know the answer to all of these things.)
 
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nlogax

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He's infinitely better than the person he replaces and we can all breathe a sigh of relief as Trump falls out of the mainstream news and we can worry about more important aspects of our lives again. No more 'oh god what's he tweeted now?'

It's still depressing that Biden was the best chance of displacing Trump though. The US needs strong leadership to keep itself from dragged back into the 19th century. Biden is just a stopgap. Very hopeful that Kamala Harris can step up as I think she'll have to in coming years.
 

UP13

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Biden is better than Trump in the sense that getting slapped in the face is better than having your house burned down.

If Biden is merely going to be 'not Trump' then we'll all be disappointed.

If in 4 years time his main selling point is still "at least I'm not Trump" then the Republicans will win back the White House.
 

Gloster

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Biden’s presidency, or at least some of it, is going to be hamstrung by all the problems that Trump is liable to deliberately leave behind to cause him difficulties. If Biden is spending his time clearing up the messes that Trump has left and dealing with obstructive Trump loyalists in government, he is going to get less done than his, to be honest, already modest programme. Trump will be able to sit there and flatter his ego by saying, “Look, he’s no good. I’m better.”

And let us hope that the problems are only relatively small, bureaucratic ones. Trump declaring war or ordering a nuclear strike on Iran or North Korea (or...) on the morning of Biden’s inauguration is within the bounds of possibility.
 

najaB

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Trump declaring war or ordering a nuclear strike on Iran or North Korea (or...) on the morning of Biden’s inauguration is within the bounds of possibility.
Fortunately, we can be pretty sure that nothing would come of it: starting a war requires days to weeks of troop movements, and they would refuse the order to launch nukes.
 

Gloster

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Fortunately, we can be pretty sure that nothing would come of it: starting a war requires days to weeks of troop movements, and they would refuse the order to launch nukes.
Quite possibly, although one can never be certain. But merely having declared war or said that a strike is going to be made would cause diplomatic chaos. It is not a situation where Biden could get everything sorted out just by saying, “It wasn’t me, sir. It was Trump.”
 
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