-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
2011 Census
- Thread starter ralphchadkirk
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
So suspicious. Probably to reflect the change in attitude that shows how many people will proudly state their sexuality free from fear of reprisals. Despite there probably being tens of thousands, how many would have answered yes on the 1961 census?
Easy - they need evidence either to show anti-discrimination policies are working/need modification - or to support their abolition, depending on which side of the fence they start from.
Not suspicious at all - just making the point that from the point of view that collating all this info costs us money, it's a needless question. Face facts - this is a marvellous exercise in ****ing money up the wall. Q14 - do I care for somebody? Occasionally I look in on old Nora 3 doors down. A worthwhile question?! Q19 How well can you speak English? Again, WTF! Q34/35 - What is your job and what do you do? I could go on, but against a backdrop of a massive national debt, it is entirely wrong to waste taxpayers money on nonsense like this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why?!
Yes, but how can I know for sure? Far better to get me to fill it in ON the 27th itself to ensure accuracy (and, yes, I know people could simply lie about anything and everything on the form).
And I'm sure many do!
Actually your not quite far from the truth.. The Census information this year is being collated by Lockheed Martin - who being an American company are bound by the Patriot act which could make them divulge all the information they have ever got on anything to the US government.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/19/census-boycott-lockheed-martin?INTCMP=SRCH
Now whilst i think that it is pushing the boundaries, dont believe it cant happen.
With an ageing population, how many are capable of looking after themselves, how many need, and get, occasional informal care, how many people who could be used more productively elsewhere are being tied up caring for someone who could more easily be cared for by the state? A very worthwhile question, that will help determine policy on care provision for the next decade or so. Of course whether the data is interpreted properly and translated into a reasonable policy is unsure, but without the data any policy would be based on finger in the air.
Given that your reply uses text-speak with an implied expletive, I am sure we can work out your answer to this! On the other hand, as use of English is essential to how effectively this country continues, I would have thought that this is a fairly sensible area in which to collect data.
One of the purposes of the census, in this and every other question, is to gather information about areas where it is felt generally that governments should have policies, and so enable those formulating those policies to have hard data on which to build. As one of the failings of the current representative system is that MPs seem to be very poor at grasping what is happening in the constituencies they represent, collating data in this way is even more important.
Do you consider yourself a funny man Oswyntail?:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well, collecting such data hasn't helped much in the formation of policies in the past...... Now, just out of interest - does anyone know how long it will take Lockheed Martin to collate all this data? We live in an ever changing world, and what was relevant on March 27th 2011 may not be of as much use on March 27th 2012. Even if all those forms have been answered truthfully....
Last edited:
True, but I've worked for a council that - in theory - could have cross referenced a lot of data to find out all sorts of things (benefit fraud for one, those claiming council tax discounts when not living alone, studying etc) and they didn't because they were pretty incompetent, and most staff wouldn't care less (just more work that they weren't paid to do).
So, while in movies we can see people doing all of that stuff - the inefficiencies of local Government should make us pretty safe. I am sure Lockheed Martin will merely do what they're paid to do, and no doubt badly like any other big organisation (Capita, Veolia, Serco etc) that tries to be a Jack of all trades.
Indeed but you are missing the point of the patriot act which could mean that they have to give over all the information gathered from the census to the US government. And if they didnt they would be pretty much ruined as a company..
council inefficiencies have nothing to do with it all and neither do movies, this is actual real life and is a scenario that could rear its head..
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Not under the data protection act they can't. They would need a court order.
Eng274
Member
- Joined
- 19 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 796
When are we expected to receive these census forms in the post? I haven't received it yet, and since it's mandatory I'd rather be pro-active in getting one filled in than risk being in trouble for not completing it.
I doubt they're going to glean much information of use to America from a census. You'd assume that people with something to hide would hide the information, and those that did write suspicious information would be on a wind-up.
I also doubt the security services would be that interested and would have to be pretty desperate to start using the census for intelligence gathering.
But this question isn't actually asked on the census! Shame actually as I think it would have been quite a useful thing to ask.
Hmmm, in a roundabout way it is. Question 4 I think it was.
Because we'll finally get some proper statistics about sexual identity rather than the...it's one in ten, erm... no one in four... erm no 12%, erm... 6% that we have at the moment. As my former MP said: ''A question on sexual orientation would help to monitor equality legislation and improve service provision to lesbian, gay and bisexual people.''
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Question 4 is about relationship status and doesn't provide information about sexuality unless you are in a legally recognised relationship (ie. marriage or civil partnership).
What, the census itself? It is useful in so much as it provides information of how many people we have in the UK on March 27th. And like Mumrar says - it is a historical record for future generations to refer to, should they fancy a genealogy session!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Ah yes, a truly modern obsession.
....which many are!
Last edited:
That was in reply to Mojo's post about the sexuality question being useful. I personally don't thinks its anyones buisness other than the individual.
Not quite. The 27th is Census day and is the deadline for completing the form. Providing your circumstances don't change you can fill it in prior to this date. I sent mine off about a week ago.
You probably could! I do find myself wondering if by making the thing 30 pages long, they haven't reduced the take up rate. Let's face it, there'll be thousands upon thousands of people who won't bother filling it in. And yes, I know it's a legal requirement, but just how are they going to enforce the law, and how much is that enforcement going to cost us?!
In what way is it not needed for sexuality? It applies for things like youth/networking groups, working on hate crime, safety, etc.
For example this document shows some of the things my local council are doing. It is important that there is enough money in areas where the concentration is higher and also important to ensure that the process is being managed transparently: http://www.westminster.gov.uk/works...AL-LGBT-Action-Plan-October-20-1255430028.pdf
Ivo
Established Member
Regarding the whole LGBT/Q4 issue...
If Britain is as welcoming as people make out then a question of sexuality wouldn't hurt. Indeed, if it was included and showed that 4,500,000 people in England are LGBT, and that in all of 2012 there were to be just 13 serious examples of "sex-hate" (or whatever it gets called; the sexuality version of racism), then it would show that almost everyone who is LGBT leads a life that is in no way adversely affected by the prejudices of others. The same could apply for being black, or elderly, or disabled, or female, or whatever. And remember that at least four of those five (including LGBT) are represented on this very forum, even solely among those with more than 1,000 posts (the one remaining being black; I only say this because I don't explicitly know of any members having revealed as much - there must be some out there!), so even in small parts this country is very diverse.
Anyway, here is Question 4 in full: "What is your legal marital or same-sex civil partnership status?"
Er, that's it. How does that explicitly identify every LGBT person in the United Kingdom? I know of at least one person on this forum who is LGBT but unable to answer Q4 in any way other than "Never married and never registered a same-sex civil partnership"; does this mean that said person is actually straight? Of course not. The same applies to my lesbian housemate, for instance.
The Government of the early 2020s really needs to address this. After all, we all know that Queen Victoria (or whoever it was) was wrong to believe that lesbian relationships do not exist, and that gay relationships are not the work of Satan; surely it is time for the Government to acknowledge this officially?
If Britain is as welcoming as people make out then a question of sexuality wouldn't hurt. Indeed, if it was included and showed that 4,500,000 people in England are LGBT, and that in all of 2012 there were to be just 13 serious examples of "sex-hate" (or whatever it gets called; the sexuality version of racism), then it would show that almost everyone who is LGBT leads a life that is in no way adversely affected by the prejudices of others. The same could apply for being black, or elderly, or disabled, or female, or whatever. And remember that at least four of those five (including LGBT) are represented on this very forum, even solely among those with more than 1,000 posts (the one remaining being black; I only say this because I don't explicitly know of any members having revealed as much - there must be some out there!), so even in small parts this country is very diverse.
Anyway, here is Question 4 in full: "What is your legal marital or same-sex civil partnership status?"
Er, that's it. How does that explicitly identify every LGBT person in the United Kingdom? I know of at least one person on this forum who is LGBT but unable to answer Q4 in any way other than "Never married and never registered a same-sex civil partnership"; does this mean that said person is actually straight? Of course not. The same applies to my lesbian housemate, for instance.
The Government of the early 2020s really needs to address this. After all, we all know that Queen Victoria (or whoever it was) was wrong to believe that lesbian relationships do not exist, and that gay relationships are not the work of Satan; surely it is time for the Government to acknowledge this officially?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Ivo, you seem to have put 2 and 2 together to make 5.
You are assuming that Q4 is about LGBT. It isn't. It's not trying to identify the numbers of lesbian, gay, bi or transsexuals. It's purely asking how many people are married, or in a civil partnership. That's it.
You are assuming that Q4 is about LGBT. It isn't. It's not trying to identify the numbers of lesbian, gay, bi or transsexuals. It's purely asking how many people are married, or in a civil partnership. That's it.
Sorry but you are totally wrong about this. Census day is the day that they require information on. You are required to complete it either on that day or shortly afterwards. If you haven't completed/returned the form by April 6th then you can expect to be visited by a friendly census collector who will offer help, answer questions, explain why it is important, provide a replacement form, etc etc.
With the greatest of respect you cannot know that everyone who you say will be in your house on that day actually will be until that day. They might be knocked down by a bus the day before.
I've filled mine in already, but won't post it off until 27th. So unless I die before then it'll be accurate, but since I won't be able to post it if I'm dead it won't make much difference anyway.
I suppose other things could change. I could have some sort of Road to Damascus type experience and go from No Religion to Some Sort Of Mental Religious Fruitcake, but I think that's most unlikely.
I suppose other things could change. I could have some sort of Road to Damascus type experience and go from No Religion to Some Sort Of Mental Religious Fruitcake, but I think that's most unlikely.
I got mine in today. The woman asked me if I knew what the census was... Anyway, I always love the fuss everyone makes about it. At the end of the day, they don't ask the question if it's not going to be of some importance for some reason. And there's a lot of reason for asking about religion (given the role it still has in politics today), languages spoken, literacy levels, number of cars owned (as a fairly accurate indicator of prosperity)... And, indeed, I think asking about sexuality would be worthwhile although it's worth noting that surveys about sexuality are always going to be skewed because there is still (sadly) a significant amount of homophobia around.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You're absolutely right. You can fill it in whenever you want. However, if (God forbid) someone in your household were to pass away between now and the 27th then the information provided would actually be incorrect. Therefore, it's best to wait until the date to fill it in. Of course, there's also the rather happier scenario of an unexpected baby, although I reckon that's a much rarer occurrence!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you live by yourself, then it won't make any difference. But what about the many people up and down the country who have more than one person in their house? Should someone's wife die between the date they fill in the census and census day, then the information is inaccurate.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You're absolutely right. You can fill it in whenever you want. However, if (God forbid) someone in your household were to pass away between now and the 27th then the information provided would actually be incorrect. Therefore, it's best to wait until the date to fill it in. Of course, there's also the rather happier scenario of an unexpected baby, although I reckon that's a much rarer occurrence!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
If you live by yourself, then it won't make any difference. But what about the many people up and down the country who have more than one person in their house? Should someone's wife die between the date they fill in the census and census day, then the information is inaccurate.
- Status