2008 S&C Drags

[mossend]

Can anyone please confirm that the S&C drags for 2008 are March 29th/30th ?

 

[Jordy]

Mod note, moved to NR General Discussion

 

[voyagerdude220]

Hi Mossend,

Welcome to the forum!!

Looking at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/virgin-trains/message/18088 , It states that the S&C drags, [which will be within view of my bedroom ] should take place between Monday 24th March 2008 & & Saturday 17th May 2008.

I personally question the sauce however, as it states diversions on the Monday, and ending on a Saturday, which is very unusual.

So, to answer your question Mossend, there should be drags on the dates you mentioned.

-Virgin Trains Yahoo Group

Services to be diverted via the S&C should be:

Saturdays:

1S42 09:03 SO Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1S45 09:03 SO London Euston - Glasgow Central (Class 390+57)
1S58 13:03 SO Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1S63 13:03 SO London Euston - Glasgow Central (Class 390+57)

1M81 09:18 SO Glasgow Central - London Euston (Class 390+57)
1M53 07:50 SO Glasgow Central - Birmingham New St (Class 221)
1M50 11:48 SO Glasgow Central - Birmingham New St (Class 221)
1M18 13:10 SO Glasgow Central - London Euston (Class 390+57)
1M99 16:10 SO Glasgow Central - Birmingham New St (Class 221)

Sundays:

1S42 09:03 SUN Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1S51 11:03 SUN Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1S15 10:31 SUN London Euston - Glasgow Central (Class 390+57)
1S51 11:03 SUN Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1S67 15:03 SUN Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)

1M16 11:25 SUN Glasgow Central - London Euston (Class 390+57)
1M74 14:05 SUN Birmingham New St - Glasgow Central (Class 221)
1M19 15:05 SUN Glasgow Central - London Euston (Class 390+57)
1M99 16:05 SUN Glasgow Central - Birmingham New St (Class 221)
1M83 18:03 SUN Glasgow Central - Manchester Piccadilly (Class 221)

A Virgin Trains Class 57 standby locomotive will be stabled at Kirkby
Stephen from 10.04 to 19.15 Saturday and from 11.43 to 20.05 Sunday during
the period of the above diversions

Off course, details should be made alot clearer nearer the start date, and I will post them in due course once I recieve any. (Unless anyone beats me to it! )

 

[Gizmogle]

I personally question the sauce however

Don't question the sauce

It'd be nice if this were true though, I've never been on a drag before.
I'll try and find out, but as my dad is off work (FOR 12 WEEKS) I may not be able to.

 

[adamp]

*holds hands in air*

but...'S&C drags' - ???????

 

[Max]

Settle and Carlisle

 

[Jordy]

Virgin trains are diverted via the Settle & Carlisle line, using either Voyagers or 57 hauled Pendolinos, while there is engineering work between Preston and Carlisle.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Don't question the sauce

It'd be nice if this were true though, I've never been on a drag before.
I'll try and find out, but as my dad is off work (FOR 12 WEEKS) I may not be able to.

I cant believe i put sauce instead of source! Stupid mistake that is!!

If you do ever go on a VT diversion over the S&C, and through my house (not literally :razz, please do give me a PM before you do it, so I could perhaps join you if you wouldnt mind me doing so.

Edit: Perhaps i/we/someone else could organise some sort of S&C diversionary RUK meet sometime in the future?

 

[mossend]

Don't question the sauce

It'd be nice if this were true though, I've never been on a drag before.
I'll try and find out, but as my dad is off work (FOR 12 WEEKS) I may not be able to.

The 57's are very quiet. But the S&C is such a beautiful line. Well worth doing if drags go ahead.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Agreed- I've only done the S&C twice before (two return day trips), and really enjoyed the scenery.

The first day trip over the S&C I had was on a 9-car Voyager set.

The second was 221 109 northbound, with 390026 (57311 from Carlisle) to Preston.

I don't know how far you would be planning on going Gizmogle, but both times, I personally went Preston-Glasgow-Preston.

On the two/three (depending on how you class a return crewe to holyhead with the same 57/pendo) drags I've been on before, i personally never heard the 57's engine, although both times I sat in either coach G, or J.

I don't know if you can hear the 57's engine if you sit in either coach A or K.

 

[Jord]

On the two/three (depending on how you class a return crewe to holyhead with the same 57/pendo) drags I've been on before, i personally never heard the 57's engine, although both times I sat in either coach G, or J.

I don't know if you can hear the 57's engine if you sit in either coach A or K.

Well i done the Nuneaton - Birmingham drags once and sat in the coach right behind loco and you can hear it - just

 

[voyagerdude220]

One thing i forgot to mention, which was very noticeable on the Crewe-Holyhead return drag, was:

The braking of the Pendo was sometimes rather harsh, whilst in control of the 57.

This was particularly noticeable as we arrived into Rhyl, as the driver of the 57 slammed on the brakes, and made the Pendo jolt rather hard.

Also, whilst the driver applied the brake a few tmes during the journey, just to slow down, not pull into a station, the Pendo's brakes made that rubbing noise which they only usually make when they are applied at a low speed, say less than 10/20mph as a guess, when we were going alot faster.

I remember reading in a RAIL magazine once, that like there's no communication between the 57+Pendo. What's all that about?

I find it odd that I didn't have any problems with the 57+390 over the S&C, but felt that the ride was rather harsh over the Crewe-Holyhead. I know that the linespeeds are generally lower over the S&C, than the Holyhead, but I didn't actually feel this was a direct reason for the ride difference.

 

[djw1981]

Saturdays 2/9/16/23/ February 2008 1/8/15/22 March 2008
>>1M39 05:51 GLC - EUSTON 08:17 @ Carlisle

57 hauling of 390 via G&SW. Also ECS (opposite direction) on Sunday evening.

 

[richa2002]

One thing i forgot to mention, which was very noticeable on the Crewe-Holyhead return drag, was:

The braking of the Pendo was sometimes rather harsh, whilst in control of the 57.

This was particularly noticeable as we arrived into Rhyl, as the driver of the 57 slammed on the brakes, and made the Pendo jolt rather hard.

Also, whilst the driver applied the brake a few tmes during the journey, just to slow down, not pull into a station, the Pendo's brakes made that rubbing noise which they only usually make when they are applied at a low speed, say less than 10/20mph as a guess, when we were going alot faster.

I remember reading in a RAIL magazine once, that like there's no communication between the 57+Pendo. What's all that about?

I find it odd that I didn't have any problems with the 57+390 over the S&C, but felt that the ride was rather harsh over the Crewe-Holyhead. I know that the linespeeds are generally lower over the S&C, than the Holyhead, but I didn't actually feel this was a direct reason for the ride difference.

Maybe you just had a rather aggressive driver?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yeah, i was wondering about that...

 

[Guinness]

Probably because the braking was controlled by the Air Pipes. Single Pendolino sets use a lot of dynamic braking at high speed rather than direct Air Brakes because it's more efficient on power and saves Brake Pads. If the 57 doesn't have any communication to the Dynamic Braking System then it will use standard air brakes that are used at low speed common with most other units. The brakes will probably smell after High Speed running like they did when dynamic braking was disabled in 2005 IIRC.

 

[ChrisCooper]

One thing i forgot to mention, which was very noticeable on the Crewe-Holyhead return drag, was:

The braking of the Pendo was sometimes rather harsh, whilst in control of the 57.

This was particularly noticeable as we arrived into Rhyl, as the driver of the 57 slammed on the brakes, and made the Pendo jolt rather hard.

Also, whilst the driver applied the brake a few tmes during the journey, just to slow down, not pull into a station, the Pendo's brakes made that rubbing noise which they only usually make when they are applied at a low speed, say less than 10/20mph as a guess, when we were going alot faster.

I remember reading in a RAIL magazine once, that like there's no communication between the 57+Pendo. What's all that about?

I find it odd that I didn't have any problems with the 57+390 over the S&C, but felt that the ride was rather harsh over the Crewe-Holyhead. I know that the linespeeds are generally lower over the S&C, than the Holyhead, but I didn't actually feel this was a direct reason for the ride difference.

Pendolinos like most EMUs (going back to the 50s) use electropnumatic braking, where electrical signals from the driver's controller are sent down the train and control the brakes on each coach, allowing much faster application and release of the brakes, and in many cases smoother aswell (since all brakes are applying and releasing together, not gradually back along the train). When being dragged by a 57 though, the they just use conventional automatic air brakes like any loco hauled train, where dropping air pressure on the brake pipe causes the brakes to be applied. I'm not sure if the Pendolinos are the same, but with the Mk1 EMUs, when running using the auto brake it wasn't possible to do partial brake releases, only full. Whilst it might seem primative for a modern, 140mph train, it was only ever intended for them to be hauled in emergencies or for occasional diversions, not in regular service like to Hollyhead, so they might have saved money by fitting more primative auto brake equipment than would be fitted to stock designed for regular loco hauling. 2nd generation EMUs and DMUs I don't think would even be braked when being hauled, it only being intended for emergencies and in the case of EMUs, off wire moves. Not 100% on any of that, but it would make sence.
As for the brake noise, that's definitly down to being hauled. As with all modern EMUs, DEMUs and Electric locos, the Pendolinos use electric braking (usually rheostatic, but with Pendolinos and, 357s and I think 350s, regenerative) down to quite low speed at which point the disk brakes cut in to stop the train. When being dragged though, the electric brakes don't work (they are controlled from the electropnumatic system rarther than air pressure, and need line power to work) so the disks will be used all the time. Pendolinos and 22Xs use damned European style steel disks that make a horrible noise when being used, especially at high speeds, unlike the composite disk that are more common in the UK, which are almost silent. Give me the nice rumble of cast iron tread brakes and a gentle squeek when stopping any day over that horrible screeching (it's the only thing I hate about the TGVs and Eurostars, and one of the long likes of things I hate about the Pendolinos and 22Xs).

 

[voyagerdude220]

Many thanks for the replies, they confirmed what I thought what the problem with the Pendo's brakes (or more precisely control) was.

When I said about thinking about the driver perhaps being a bit rough with the train, I was just making a guess at what could have caused the problem.