20 Class 60s for sale

[Boothby97]

Received via email

DBSR has the following locomotives available for sale:

LOCOMOTIVES
Loco In service year Fuel Capacity (Gallons)
1 60002 92 1150
2 60013 93 990
3 60021 90 1150
4 60026 90 1150
5 60028 90 1150
6 60029 90 990
7 60033 91 1150
8 60038 91 1150
9 60041 91 1150
10 60046 91 1150
11 60047 91 990
12 60048 91 990
13 60055 91 1150
14 60056 91 1150
15 60061 91 990
16 60076 91 990
17 60085 91 990
18 60087 91 990
19 60095 92 990
20 60096 92 1150
These locomotives are at Crewe, Toton and St Blazey (60096) and will be sold as seen and as and where lying.

The successful bidder(s) will be required to remove the Locomotives at their own expense.

Please register your interest for these locomotives in accordance with the “Guide to making an offer for a Locomotive.”

Registrations of interest should be e-mailed using the box on the left of this page. Postal registrations of interest should be sent to the address at the bottom of this section.

The closing date for registrations of interest for these locomotives is at 12 noon on Monday 23rd September 2013.
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Tender documents will be issued shortly after this date.

More information available at, http://www.rail.dbschenker.co.uk/disposals/locomotives.html

Seems like some of the better examples, with the likes of 60081/098 (which are in the worst state) not included. 60033/096 were also reported to be in the pipeline for repairs/overhaul respectively. Of note, 60038/055 were offered on the first tender list of 60s a few years ago.

Thanks, Sam

 

[Alan1310]

I am sure rail just did a whole piece on the 60's and DBSHENKER were saying there not getting rid of them and none were a complete loss due to a rotator they got from mirless I am shocked to hear this in a way. I hope someone can snap one up for preservation or DRS buy a few and overhaul them

 

[BestWestern]

I am sure rail just did a whole piece on the 60's and DBSHENKER were saying there not getting rid of them and none were a complete loss due to a rotator they got from mirless I am shocked to hear this in a way. I hope someone can snap one up for preservation or DRS buy a few and overhaul them

I was just thinking exactly that! How strange, I thought they had become flavour of the month again.

 

[anthony263]

Maybe DBS dont have the work for all those class 60's especially with all the 66's.

I wont be surprised if we see companies like GBRF looking at some especially if they go after some heavy haul work.

 

[Oswyntail]

It could just be an exercise to see what market there is. If you have an asset, and you are trying to assess whether repair is more economic than replacement you need to know what you could get for it. As they seem to be being sold as viable machines, albeit in need of repair, I cannot see many expressions of interest.

 

[hwl]

Like Oswyntail I suspect this is for costing up options too.

i.e. Possibly refurbish 60s or return some 66s to leasing company?

 

[David Barrett]

I get the impression that some of those on offer may not be all that viable and will be complete basket cases, robbed blind for spares and certian work part completed when taken out of traffic, barely beleiveable I know but it did happen, with components like the cam shaft left exposed to atmosphere during "storage" leading to heavy corrosion on precision made parts of the engine; very expensive to put right and would probably need a cast iron gurantee of enough work being available to make restotation worthwhile. One owner, sold as seen, genuine reason for sale are terms which come to mind if, as pointed out earlier, DBS do actually intend to dispose of these assets.

 

[Beveridges]

I am sure rail just did a whole piece on the 60's and DBSHENKER were saying there not getting rid of them and none were a complete loss due to a rotator they got from mirless I am shocked to hear this in a way. I hope someone can snap one up for preservation or DRS buy a few and overhaul them

DRS dont have any work suitable for 60s, Heavy Haul would be far more likely to get them than DRS

 

[158722]

I get the impression that some of those on offer may not be all that viable and will be complete basket cases, robbed blind for spares and certian work part completed when taken out of traffic, barely beleiveable I know but it did happen, with components like the cam shaft left exposed to atmosphere during "storage" leading to heavy corrosion on precision made parts of the engine; very expensive to put right and would probably need a cast iron gurantee of enough work being available to make restotation worthwhile. One owner, sold as seen, genuine reason for sale are terms which come to mind if, as pointed out earlier, DBS do actually intend to dispose of these assets.

This may be true for many examples, but virtually all of those on this tender are known to be fairly well intact and in a decent state - probably the best of the stored locos. Most, including all of the Crewe ones, were simply turned off with minor faults or out of hours for overhaul and have not been robbed as they have been in secure (hopefully!) storage inside the depot.

IMHO, it adds credence to the comments about a costing exercise and that they won't be sold.

 

[David Barrett]

This may be true for many examples, but virtually all of those on this tender are known to be fairly well intact and in a decent state - probably the best of the stored locos. Most, including all of the Crewe ones, were simply turned off with minor faults or out of hours for overhaul and have not been robbed as they have been in secure (hopefully!) storage inside the depot.

IMHO, it adds credence to the comments about a costing exercise and that they won't be sold.

Thank you, it certianly seems that there could be more than meets the eye in this case.

 

[Bevan Price]

This may be true for many examples, but virtually all of those on this tender are known to be fairly well intact and in a decent state - probably the best of the stored locos. Most, including all of the Crewe ones, were simply turned off with minor faults or out of hours for overhaul and have not been robbed as they have been in secure (hopefully!) storage inside the depot.

IMHO, it adds credence to the comments about a costing exercise and that they won't be sold.

Or maybe they are hoping for interest from mainland Europe ?

 

[tranzitjim]

What sort of condition are these units in?

Are they in operating condition?

 

[12CSVT]

Let's hope the class 60 preservation group manage to get one (or more) for a reasonable price before the likes of Harry Needle start bulk buying them.

 

[tranzitjim]

Let's hope the class 60 preservation group manage to get one (or more) for a reasonable price before the likes of Harry Needle start bulk buying them.

Whom are Harry Needle?

 

[D365]

What sort of condition are these units in? Are they in operating condition?

Read the previous postings. Generally minor faults but are in secure storage. Those offered are still in better condition than some of the others

Whom are Harry Needle?

Harry Needle Railroad Company (HNRC) are pretty much a wheelie-dealer in diesel locomotion, based at Barrow Hill. Have bought, sold, refurbished and scrapped much traction over their time.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Harry Needle Railroad Company (HNRC) are pretty much a wheelie-dealer in diesel locomotion, based at Barrow Hill. Have bought, sold, refurbished and scrapped much traction over their time.

The Harry Redknapp of the world of diesel loco's, hopefully without the tax issues!

 

[455driver]

Read the previous postings. Generally minor faults but are in secure storage. Those offered are still in better condition than some of the others.

Some have knackered cranks others have major piston or main alternator faults, those that were simply switched off were due major overhauls as they were out of hours.

If these are "minor" faults what would you class as "major" faults?

 

[Beveridges]

Would much rather Harry Needle get them than Booths!

I don't know why BR sold the Class 60's to EWS instead of a leasing company. EWS clearly didn't need 100 Class 60's, especially when they started losing loads of petroleum, coal, steel, iron ore traffic. Someone else should have had the chance to use them before they got into the state that they have.

 

[D365]

Some have knackered cranks others have major piston or main alternator faults, those that were simply switched off were due major overhauls as they were out of hours.

If these are "minor" faults what would you class as "major" faults?

The 20 60s which are 'for sale' generally have minor faults according to this discussion and in particular this post. I haven't noted any severe problems, unless I've missed something here.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't know why BR sold the Class 60's to EWS instead of a leasing company.

There wasn't a choice was there? Wasn't it forced by statute? Transfer of assets to the various new companies at the time? Once EWS had their hands on them, there was no way they'd let a leasing company buy them was there?

 

[cj_1985]

Would much rather Harry Needle get them than Booths!

I don't know why BR sold the Class 60's to EWS instead of a leasing company. EWS clearly didn't need 100 Class 60's, especially when they started losing loads of petroleum, coal, steel, iron ore traffic. Someone else should have had the chance to use them before they got into the state that they have.

Far more likely, given that the class 60s are a more advanced/computerised loco than HNRC normally deal with, that if they were to bid/buy them... then I reckon it would be for scrap only....

 

[SansPareil]

Perhaps wishful thinking but maybe Brush alongside a suitable partner and financier could purchase and recondition or rebuild them like they did the 57s and currently are with the 73s.

The manner in which EWS/DBS have been able to monopolize the market for traction and thereby limit competition whilst squandering what should have been key assets for the nation has been a disgrace in my opinion. Similar to the manner in which they have abused their ownership of Dollands Moor.

 

[D365]

I wonder what EWS/DBS would have done with the 100 locos had BR got what they wished for in 59s. Although to be built under licence in Crewe, politics of the time forced them to 'do the right thing' for Britain. Suchwise it was the 60s that were received, eventually... And the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[junglejames]

I wonder what EWS/DBS would have done with the 100 locos had BR got what they wished for in 59s. Although to be built under licence in Crewe, politics of the time forced them to 'do the right thing' for Britain. Suchwise it was the 60s that were received, eventually... And the rest, as they say, is history.

So BR wanted a loco that never complied with what they asked for?
BR wanted a fuel thrifty loco. The GM engine does not comply. Hence why the 60 has the engine it has got. They could easily have chucked a lighter engine into the 60, but they didnt, because that wouldnt have complied with BRs requirements.
If the GM 2 strokes were good enough, then you likely would not have seen the Mirrlees in the 60.

 

[Beveridges]

I wonder what EWS/DBS would have done with the 100 locos had BR got what they wished for in 59s. Although to be built under licence in Crewe, politics of the time forced them to 'do the right thing' for Britain. Suchwise it was the 60s that were received, eventually... And the rest, as they say, is history.

Whether it was 100 60s or 59s the fact is the work isnt there for them, EWS lost so much steel, petroleum, iron ore and coal, storage or use abroad would have been inevitable.
Sadly most of the freight DB/EWS have now able to be hauled by a single 66!

 

[tadhatter]

The manner in which EWS/DBS have been able to monopolize the market for traction and thereby limit competition whilst squandering what should have been key assets for the nation has been a disgrace in my opinion. Similar to the manner in which they have abused their ownership of Dollands Moor.

But is that their fault? Gebuine question btw as I have no axe to grind either way? If all the traction was handed over to them as part of the privatisation process (I'm afraid I can't remember now) then what else would you expect?

Also, what's been going on at Dollands Moor please?

 

[cj_1985]

But is that their fault? Gebuine question btw as I have no axe to grind either way? If all the traction was handed over to them as part of the privatisation process (I'm afraid I can't remember now) then what else would you expect?

Also, what's been going on at Dollands Moor please?

I believe what is being alluded to is that DBS being in a powerful position as owner of the yard and its facilities demand certain information from would be users of the tunnel... iirc details I remember being mentioned are/were who the users client is, value of the goods being transported and cost of transport services being charged.... there may be others but those are the ones ISTR from a few years ago...

Frankly I think it would be better all round if the yard had ownership transfered to Network Rail, with Customs import/export controls being in the hands of HMRC... rather than a business that could use the information demanded in order to undercut existing operators of a freight flow.

 

[SansPareil]

But is that their fault? Gebuine question btw as I have no axe to grind either way? If all the traction was handed over to them as part of the privatisation process (I'm afraid I can't remember now) then what else would you expect?

Also, what's been going on at Dollands Moor please?

But is that their fault? Gebuine question btw as I have no axe to grind either way? If all the traction was handed over to them as part of the privatisation process (I'm afraid I can't remember now) then what else would you expect?

Also, what's been going on at Dollands Moor please?

You certainly can't blame them for not selling locomotives to competitors, either nascent or established, when they don't have to.

I would certainly question the fact that on privatisation the DfT allowed EWS to acquire a near monopoly on UK railfreight operations, and more importantly the associated assets. That fact undoubtedly stifled competition in the early years, and possibly continues to do so.

Perhaps the operation and the ultimate ownership should have been separated as it was with the TOC's and the ROSCOS, maybe that would have realised less value for the Treasury.

As regards Dollands Moor, it sounds like some have more knowledge than me on the subject, but there is some information here with regards to the negative impact of DBS ownership on the potential to grow freight traffic through the Channel Tunnel;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmtran/1001/1001we03.htm

 

[Boothby97]

All 20 sold to Brush Traction (who own Doncaster, Loughborough and Kilmarnock Works).

 

[Monty]

A speculative move with a view to resell the locomotives on after refurbishment, or perhaps something a little more drastic like reengineering or rebuilding?