2 minute silences

[AM9]

So how far would you take this nonsense?

Would you object to bring 'forced' to take time off work at christmas and Easter?

Here come the strawman try-ons. That would be established as part of the staff working and holiday arrangements and effectively form part of the package that you accept when taking the job.

Would you object to bring 'forced' to observe a minutes silence at a football match or other event?

Another irrelevance. We are talking about continuing to work, not just making an unnecessary noise. Apart from the threat from the rest of the 'me too' mob on the terraces, how would you be 'forced' to observe the silence?

I can't believe what a nation of whingers we're becoming:cry:

I find it difficult that in this 'free' society that many crow about over foreign nations, we are constantly expected to have these orchestrated wallowings over losses where (in the case of WW1) there is no serving person alive. Soon, there will be nobody who was even alive during that war. Maybe we should start remembering the Boer War, then the Napoleonic battles*, the opportunity for the remembrance industry and its adherants is endless.
Yes there have been a few armed forces backed political interventions since WWII but I choose to remember those who just happened to live in the theatre of war and it cost them dearly. They didn't even fight on behalf of the politicians. Remembering is something that is done personally. It doesn't need cannons, bands, poppies, or everybody else to be doing the same thing. I have a mind of my own.

* I'm sure that there were other eligible events between those two but I am not a history date anorak.

 

[Antman]

I don't think that someone should be issued a formal warning that is retained on their HR record by an employer for not observing it, as another poster has stated above.

Are you suggesting that is a correct course of action?

No I'm not I am simply asking why anyone would find it difficult or impossible to just be quiet for 2 minutes? It's almost as though some on here are insisting that they would exercise their right to stamp their feet and make a noise like a naughty child in the school classroom.

I suspect the person who mentioned being given a warning hasn't told the full story and if he was administering first aid at the time then he shouldn't have stopped for 2 minutes, that's nothing to do with employment law it is just stating the bleeding obvious!

As for all this waffle about industrial tribunals in an age of zero hour contracts and endless cheap labour from abroad most employers can get rid of whoever they choose at the drop of a hat without any recourse!

 

[NSEFAN]

No I'm not I am simply asking why anyone would find it difficult or impossible to just be quiet for 2 minutes? It's almost as though some on here are insisting that they would exercise their right to stamp their feet and make a noise like a naughty child in the school classroom.

It's not about possibility, it's about the ability to choose. If someone does not agree with the message of the silence (for example some people believe it glorifies war, etc. etc.) then it should not be mandatory for them to adhere to it. As others have said the point of WW2 was to try and prevent totalitarianism, so it would be completely against the point to require someone to adhere to the silence.

I suspect the person who mentioned being given a warning hasn't told the full story and if he was administering first aid at the time then he shouldn't have stopped for 2 minutes, that's nothing to do with employment law it is just stating the bleeding obvious!

Clearly someone doing a safety-critical job shouldn't be distracted by the silence if it would put lives at danger. It is indeed obvious.

As for all this waffle about industrial tribunals in an age of zero hour contracts and endless cheap labour from abroad most employers can get rid of whoever they choose at the drop of a hat without any recourse!

So, despite the wars it seems that human life is still cheap. It seems that we are free (to do as we're told because our employers might as well own us).

 

[Antman]

It's not about possibility, it's about the ability to choose. If someone does not agree with the message of the silence (for example some people believe it glorifies war, etc. etc.) then it should not be mandatory for them to adhere to it. As others have said the point of WW2 was to try and prevent totalitarianism, so it would be completely against the point to require someone to adhere to the silence.


Clearly someone doing a safety-critical job shouldn't be distracted by the silence if it would put lives at danger. It is indeed obvious.


So, despite the wars it seems that human life is still cheap. It seems that we are free (to do as we're told because our employers might as well own us).

Well yes sadly that is the reality in the workplace today.

Anyway that's not the issue here the two minutes silence is and you've just confirmed what I thought all along, just sheer petty bloody mindedness!

The word mandatory doesn't come into it, just a matter of respect for those around you

 

[Chew Chew]

Well yes sadly that is the reality in the workplace today.

Anyway that's not the issue here the two minutes silence is and you've just confirmed what I thought all along, just sheer petty bloody mindedness!

The word mandatory doesn't come into it, just a matter of respect for those around you

What about respect for yourself if you don't want to observe it? Why should you have to scuttle off to the toilet for a couple minutes? Respect works both ways.

Just as I respect people who observe it I am also able to respect people who, through their own personal beliefs, don't want to observe it.

 

[Antman]

What about respect for yourself if you don't want to observe it? Why should you have to scuttle off to the toilet for a couple minutes? Respect works both ways.

Just as I respect people who observe it I am also able to respect people who, through their own personal beliefs, don't want to observe it.

But all you have to do is be quiet for 2 minutes or leave the room/office, what's difficult about that? If people were being compelled to wear a poppy I could understand the objections, but they're not.

 

[AM9]

But all you have to do is be quiet for 2 minutes or leave the room/office, what's difficult about that? If people were being compelled to wear a poppy I could understand the objections, but they're not.

Why can't they leave the office and go somewhere quiet, - maybe the toilet where you think it is OK for others to go.

 

[Antman]

Why can't they leave the office and go somewhere quiet, - maybe the toilet where you think it is OK for others to go.

You're just being ridiculous now, I think this debate has more than run its course!

 

[Chew Chew]

But all you have to do is be quiet for 2 minutes or leave the room/office, what's difficult about that? If people were being compelled to wear a poppy I could understand the objections, but they're not.

Why should they have to be quiet for 2 minutes if they do not believe in what the silence is being held for?

Why should they have to be the person that leaves?

Isn't isn't about what is difficult or what is easy, it is about ideologies and you are attempting to promote one ideology above another.

 

[NSEFAN]

But all you have to do is be quiet for 2 minutes or leave the room/office, what's difficult about that? If people were being compelled to wear a poppy I could understand the objections, but they're not.

There is an issue of respect for others here. If someone is clearly observing the silence then it would be rude to disrupt them with work-related matters. That doesn't mean you need to sit in silence doing nothing, however.

 

[Antman]

There is an issue of respect for others here. If someone is clearly observing the silence then it would be rude to disrupt them with work-related matters. That doesn't mean you need to sit in silence doing nothing, however.

That's what I've been saying all along!

I mean if a funeral cortege is going past most people would show due respect even if they have no connection whatsoever with the deceased.

 

[DerekC]

Why should they have to be quiet for 2 minutes if they do not believe in what the silence is being held for?

Why should they have to be the person that leaves?

Isn't isn't about what is difficult or what is easy, it is about ideologies and you are attempting to promote one ideology above another.

I don't see it as a question of ideologies. I happen to believe that most of the lives lost in wars are and were wasted, but that doesn't lessen my respect for the courage of the men and women who fought in them. What causes people to see it in terms of ideologies, I think, is the politicisation of the event. People are being pressured to conform with an establishment norm. It shouldn't be like that - it should be a personal thing whether you are silent or not - but equally the wish of others to be quiet should be respected and the fact that people (like me and maybe the GW TM) forget sometimes tolerated.

 

[Groningen]

With the recent attacks in Paris trains in the Netherlands will be stopped for 1 minute at 12.00 tomorrow.

 

[westv]

With the recent attacks in Paris trains in the Netherlands will be stopped for 1 minute at 12.00 tomorrow.

There was a minutes silence here in our London office today. Wasn't there also a minutes silence yesterday too? Not sure why there were two.

 

[cf111]

I was passing through King's Cross on the 11th and noticed that the 1100 to Edinburgh was scheduled for 1058 - is this due to it being Remembrance Day?

 

[TheNewNo2]

I was passing through King's Cross on the 11th and noticed that the 1100 to Edinburgh was scheduled for 1058 - is this due to it being Remembrance Day?

I'd imagine there was a TSR or something.

 

[meridian2]

The bottom line is that we each have own individual qualms and if someone doesn't like involving themselves in the 2 minutes silence, then we should respect that, and vice versa.

 

[Trog]

For Poppies and silences to mean anything they have to be voluntary, therefore you almost need some people who do not wear poppies and who carry on during the silences to show that those who do take part are doing it of their own free will.

It would be nice to think that in return for not being badgered to take part, those not taking part would carry on discreetly during the silences so as not to offend those who may have a deep personal reason to take part.

 

[ainsworth74]

I was passing through King's Cross on the 11th and noticed that the 1100 to Edinburgh was scheduled for 1058 - is this due to it being Remembrance Day?

I'd imagine there was a TSR or something.

There were several notices on the station and I believe on their website stating that this had been moved because of the silence at 1100.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was a minutes silence here in our London office today. Wasn't there also a minutes silence yesterday too? Not sure why there were two.

The one today was for Paris and was an official Europe-wide one.

Quite likely there were a few spontaneous ones yesterday as well as it was a Sunday; these will have been arranged before the official one was announced last night and confirmed this morning.

 

[Stigy]

Sometimes, whilst working, it is often impractical. And people do often lose track of time through no fault of their own.

I do agree that it's a matter for personal preference and onion whether one chooses to wear a poppy/observes the 2-minutes silence. Of course most will observe these, but sometimes it's impractical to observe the silence and/or wear a poppy due to the nature of one's work.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Should it have been 10am to have it the same time as Paris? (1 Hr ahead of GMT)
I agree it should be up to individual choice.
"La Marseillaise" (FR/EN subs) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQSEq6tEVs

 

[brompton rail]

Should it have been 10am to have it the same time as Paris? (1 Hr ahead of GMT)
I agree it should be up to individual choice.
"La Marseillaise" (FR/EN subs) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIQSEq6tEVs

No, the silence in France (and the rest of the Central European Time Zone) was at noon (I.e. 11.00 GMT). In Western Europe I believe only the UK, Eire and Portugal adhere to GMT.

 

[Antman]

The bottom line is that we each have own individual qualms and if someone doesn't like involving themselves in the 2 minutes silence, then we should respect that, and vice versa.

The bottom line is nobody has to make a noise for that two minutes regardless of their opinion

 

[AM9]

The bottom line is nobody has to make a noise for that two minutes regardless of their opinion

Correct that to 'nobody has to make any unnecessary noise'. An expectation of absolute silence is both unreasonable and stupid. If those who want to take part in an orchestrated 1 or 2 minute 'think-in' can't cope with others walking quietly, writing noises, coughs and sneezes, etc., then traffic, birds and if on a train, the noise of its (the train's) own progress will be a problem as well.

 

[Crossover]

So how far would you take this nonsense?

Would you object to bring 'forced' to take time off work at christmas and Easter?

Would you object to bring 'forced' to observe a minutes silence at a football match or other event?

I can't believe what a nation of whingers we're becoming:cry:

Here come the strawman try-ons. That would be established as part of the staff working and holiday arrangements and effectively form part of the package that you accept when taking the job.

Just to back up AM9, I have effectively forced annual leave over the Christmas period (a time of a full factory shutdown) - this is stated in advance and we have the time reserved from our annual leave quota for the year

 

[ExRes]

Not sure if anyone has quoted the original form, it actually reads "..... there may be for a brief space of two minutes, a complete suspension of all our normal activities"

 

[Antman]

Just to back up AM9, I have effectively forced annual leave over the Christmas period (a time of a full factory shutdown) - this is stated in advance and we have the time reserved from our annual leave quota for the year

That seems to commonplace and isn't quite the same thing as the two minutes silence

 

[Crossover]

That seems to commonplace and isn't quite the same thing as the two minutes silence

There was never any suggestion that it was...but since you started the off topic conversation......

 

[Antman]

There was never any suggestion that it was...but since you started the off topic conversation......

I didn't actually, I just asked how far somebody would take their objection to being 'forced' to do something