2-Hap (Class 414) unit allocations

[RichJF]

Hi everyone,

This is more query about historical unit allocations than anything up to date.

I'm delving into Southern Region EMUs again & the 2-Hap units are puzzling me.
Does anyone know which services these used to work?
There's a clip of one at Canterbury & a picture of one at Seaford & a Youtube of one at Elmers End!.
Was it merely a case of wherever it ended up in each relevant operating section? I know they were geared for 90mph.

Thanks!

 

[yorksrob]

Well, they were built for the Kent Coast stoppers and stayed there more or less until the VEP's arrived in Kent in the mid 1970's. I've seen pictures of them in Kent in the 1980's, so I'm guessing some stayed there, although less numerous than previously. A lot moved to the Western division for semi-fast services at that time. There were also some used on central division coastway services in the 1970's and 80's.

I think in the 90's they used to crop up all over the place, strengthening main line trains and substituting for withdrawn EPB's in the suburbs. I was living in Ashford at the time and was always quite excited to see one as they were rare there in the 90's. Then they were withdrawn in 1995.

 

[swt_passenger]

Have you seen this article on the Southern E group site:
http://www.semgonline.com/gallery/class414_01.html

 

[physics34]

A few became 4 CAPs ay various stages and we're seen on Kent link services substituting for EPBs in the last days until withdrawl.
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http://www.bloodandcustard.com/hap001.html

Terrific info here

 

[30907]

Well, they were built for the Kent Coast stoppers and stayed there more or less until the VEP's arrived in Kent in the mid 1970's. I've seen pictures of them in Kent in the 1980's, so I'm guessing some stayed there, although less numerous than previously. A lot moved to the Western division for semi-fast services at that time. There were also some used on central division coastway services in the 1970's and 80's.

I think in the 90's they used to crop up all over the place, strengthening main line trains and substituting for withdrawn EPB's in the suburbs. I was living in Ashford at the time and was always quite excited to see one as they were rare there in the 90's. Then they were withdrawn in 1995.

There were a few on the SW quite early, when the Central was still the preserve of SR-era units. In 1968 I came home from a holiday in Swanage on a train which from Bournemouth was formed 2Hap 2EDL 8TC! Think they normally strengthened Basingstokes!

 

[yorksrob]

There were a few on the SW quite early, when the Central was still the preserve of SR-era units. In 1968 I came home from a holiday in Swanage on a train which from Bournemouth was formed 2Hap 2EDL 8TC! Think they normally strengthened Basingstokes!

I hear strange things happened on the SW division before they got their additional REP/TC stock in the early 70's

I would have liked to have got one at speed, but alas only managed them on relatively slow hops.

Incidentally, as part of their project to help cosmetically restore the NRM's unit (4308) the NSE Society compiled a history of it and its travels around the Southern Region, which the OP might find interesting:

http://www.nsers.org/history.html

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I remember they used to trundle past my house near Canterbury East during the 1970s working Dover stoppers. They also used to work Ramsgate stoppers via Whitstable so the South Eastern units were all allocated to Ramsgate from memory.

I think prior to about 1973(?) there weren't any fixed allocations but I have a vague recollection of only seeing certain batches in my area during the late 1970s.

The South Western Division units were allocated to Wimbledon and the 4Caps (when formed c. 1982) were allocated to Brighton.

 

[4630]

During the early 1970s a SW division HAP was booked M-F to operate the Lymington branch. It was berthed overnight at Eastleigh depot.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On the SW they were often used in the peaks to strengthen an 8 VEP to a 10 car , and now and again 2 x 2 HAP units worked the Basingstoke terminators vice a 4 VEP.

 

[yorksrob]

They certainty proved their worth in terms of versatility !

 

[eastwestdivide]

At times in the 70s/80s, the Ramsgate-based ones worked the Maidstone West and Sheerness branches too, singly or paired up.

 

[Deepgreen]

They became pretty universal, and a number were reclassified to 2SAPs (first class declassified) for suburban use on the SW and Central sides. The SR-design units had rather nice corridor composites with large windows (see photo).

 

[30907]

At times in the 70s/80s, the Ramsgate-based ones worked the Maidstone West and Sheerness branches too, singly or paired up.

I think they worked both branches from 1959 to withdrawal (weren't they replaced by 313s?). They were equally common as 8-Hap or 10-Hap on SED "main lines" services - and in the 70s there was the unusual sight of a 2-car "fast" in the suburban area on some xx50 Vic-Gillinghams (offpeak of course!).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

They became pretty universal, and a number were reclassified to 2SAPs (first class declassified) for suburban use on the SW and Central sides. The SR-design units had rather nice corridor composites with large windows (see photo).

I think they then had the 1st class reinstated at some point. Very comfy they were too ....I believe Wimbledon Park must have had an allocation for a while and seemed to look after them well.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think they then had the 1st class reinstated at some point...

According to the article I linked earlier:

In 1974 forty units were downgraded to second/standard class only followed in 1977 by a further eleven units. These were reclassified as 2 Sap. They were all restored to Hap status by 1980.

 

[nw1]

On the SW they were often used in the peaks to strengthen an 8 VEP to a 10 car , and now and again 2 x 2 HAP units worked the Basingstoke terminators vice a 4 VEP.

They even strengthened some CIG formations, e.g. one of the Waterloo-Portsmouth fasts in the evening peak (1730 or so) used to be 2HAP+8CIG. As well as 10 car they were used to make 6 car formations too, e.g the 1530-or so stopping Waterloo-Portsmouth (leaving Guildford 1630 or so).

For a while one of the peak Basingstoke/Alton dividers (1735 or so out of Waterloo) used to be 12HAP, half going to Basingstoke and half Alton, dividing at Woking. This seemed to be the booked stock as it consistently had this formation. The following Alton was something like 2x2EPB + 4CIG, meaning the Alton line, consistently VEPs off-peak in those days (1983/4 or so, though in the nineties it seemed to have more in the way of CIGs), had quite varied stock in the peak!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They became pretty universal, and a number were reclassified to 2SAPs (first class declassified) for suburban use on the SW and Central sides. The SR-design units had rather nice corridor composites with large windows (see photo).

Nice photo - mind if I snag it with a view to ( eventually! ) doing a painting of it?

 

[clagmonster]

I think they worked both branches from 1959 to withdrawal (weren't they replaced by 313s?). They were equally common as 8-Hap or 10-Hap on SED "main lines" services - and in the 70s there was the unusual sight of a 2-car "fast" in the suburban area on some xx50 Vic-Gillinghams (offpeak of course!).

I think there was a spell of 466s on the branches in between. It was 508s, renumbered as 508/2s, rather than 313s, which were all at Hornsey or Bletchley (possibly later transferred to Willesden - the grey matter is failing) at that point.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I think they worked both branches from 1959 to withdrawal (weren't they replaced by 313s?). They were equally common as 8-Hap or 10-Hap on SED "main lines" services - and in the 70s there was the unusual sight of a 2-car "fast" in the suburban area on some xx50 Vic-Gillinghams (offpeak of course!).

From the late 70s until the 80s, the Maidstone W branch kept swapping regular traction, between regular HAPs early on, EPBs, a period of CEPs, and there was a small batch of 2-EPBs (64xx) converted to be more open for the guard to collect/sell tickets mid 80s.
CEPs and VEPs also worked the Sheerness branch in that period.

 

[RichJF]

Wow. Lots of info! Thanks all for replies. Quite an interesting life they had especially in the later years when even the 4-CAP units were both semi-permanently & loosely coupled together!

Given I was still young when the HAPs were withdrawn I'm grateful for people in the know for the more concrete info!

 

[Deepgreen]

Nice photo - mind if I snag it with a view to ( eventually! ) doing a painting of it?

Please do, Peter - I didn't know you are a fellow railway artist! I look forward to seeing the result.
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According to the article I linked earlier:

While the BR-designed units did return to HAP status, I don't think the SR/Bulleid-designed ones did. I think they were withdrawn too early to make it worthwhile.

 

[yorksrob]

Please do, Peter - I didn't know you are a fellow railway artist! I look forward to seeing the result.
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While the BR-designed units did return to HAP status, I don't think the SR/Bulleid-designed ones did. I think they were withdrawn too early to make it worthwhile.

I believe that some of the Bullied ones had their non-corridor carriages facelifted and formed into EPB's (possibly with redundant SUB trailers).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Please do, Peter - I didn't know you are a fellow railway artist! I look forward to seeing the result.

Thank you; it might be a year or more before I can get round to it though... I'm in the early stages of one that's going to take me several months and I have another queued up behind that.

 

[chris7153]

Informative article at,

www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/historical-features/brfleet_hap.html

I have info on the individual unit numbers, withdrawal dates, conversions into 4 caps etc and don't forget the Gatwick express Driving luggage vans.

 

[cossie4i]

Wow. Lots of info! Thanks all for replies. Quite an interesting life they had especially in the later years when even the 4-CAP units were both semi-permanently & loosely coupled together!

Given I was still young when the HAPs were withdrawn I'm grateful for people in the know for the more concrete info!

When as Caps they was coupled brake van to brake van with the power control and brake handles removed.