1990s- all stations beyond Woking

[adc82140]

When I commuted to school on the SWML in the early 90s, I distinctly remember some down trains mid afternoon that really did stop at all shacks after Woking, including places like Swaythling, Millbrook and Holton Heath. They were extensions of the Basingstoke stoppers. I think one was final stop Wareham, and one went as far as Weymouth. Given the other existing provision of faster services to Weymouth etc what was the purpose of these twice a day services (usually run by a 4 car CIG)? I can't imagine huge demand for direct trains between Winchfield and Upwey! I think they all got cut back to Basingstoke upon privatisation.

 

[JonathanH]

what was the purpose of these twice a day services

This sort of service often runs for operational convenience. I could think of a number of reasons for extending a Basingstoke stopper all stations right through to Wareham:

Firstly, to provide an additional service at Micheldever - there were, for a period, services which started at Winchester before the Romsey stopper started to provide the service at Shawford and Swaythling - linking the Basingstoke stopper to a Winchester to Wareham service might be worthwhile when there was a flow expected at Micheldever.

Secondly, the Basingstoke stopper may have been 4-car from Waterloo but a longer train was required to go into Waterloo for a peak service. Rather than coupling a spare unit onto the train arriving at Basingstoke, it would make more sense to take a whole 12-car formation out of the sidings and send that to London, something then needs to happen with the 4-car arrival.

Another reason may be for the retention of traincrew knowledge for stopping at all of the stations on the route and rotation of stock around the network.

 

[30907]

From 1967 one of the Basingstoke stoppers each hour continued to Bournemouth, being overtaken at Southampton by the fast Weymouth.
At one time after Weymouth was electrified the stoppers West of Southampton regularly ran through to Wareham, and an evening peak extension to Weymouth doesn't seem odd.
As JonathanH has just said, providing extra trains Basingstoke-Winchester mid afternoon doesn't seem unusual - was this the period when Micheldever was normally served by the Reading/Basingstoke-Brighton/Portsmouth trains?

 

[Grecian 1998]

I have the 1991-92 BR winter timetable. This reveals there was a 1505 off Waterloo which stopped at all stations between Woking and Bournemouth, taking 174 minutes for the 108 mile journey. It was overtaken between Woking and Basingstoke by the 1515 Exeter and 1532 Weymouth services, so it presumably had to use the slow lines for the full journey. It was then overtaken again at Southampton by the 1545 semi-fast which most hours terminated at Poole but in that hour was extended to Weymouth. I can't find any other afternoon train with that stopping pattern which made it past Southampton.

All times are out of Waterloo for clarity.

Not afternoon, but there was a 0617 Woking - Wareham service which called at all stations except Lyndhurst Road (now Ashurst) and Beaulieu Road.

I only have 1991-92 so it's possible there might have been changes later.

 

[randyrippley]

Was that 1505 one of the 33/TC/EMU hybrid services which ran with both the 33 and VEP or CIG powered? Split at Basingstoke with the 33+TC continuing to Salisbury. Timing sounds very familiar from memory

 

[adc82140]

Interesting responses. Going back into the corners of my memory, at this time I was commuting out of Fleet, so I can only remember the approximate arrival times into Fleet:

At around 16:00 there was an all stations to Weymouth
16:30 was all stations to Wareham. Later on they added Weybridge as well further up the line to hoover up school traffic.
17:00 was all stations to Southampton
17:30 was all stations to Basingstoke, but also uniquely earlier in its journey had a stop at Wimbledon.

The Year was about 1993-94.
These services ran slow line all the way from Surbiton.

 

[Taunton]

The pattern from electrification seemed to work quite well. There was an initially 2-hourly express, just Southampton and Bournemouth, then stops to Weymouth. Over time extras slotted in to make this hourly, for which extra REP units were built. Then there was an hourly semi-fast, principal points to Bournemouth, and in the hours that didn't have an express continuing to Weymouth, giving an hourly service there. Finally there was the hourly stopper at everywhere beyond Woking to Bournemouth, normally a VEP. This was all devised with overtaking, so for Waterloo to say Totton, you took the express and transfererd at Southampton to the waiting stopper.

This recognised that a lot of what business there was at the smaller points was not going to London, but likely just to the nearest major station. Progressively over time the faster services have added more and more points. While this may be good for the likes of Winchester to have multiple fasts per hour to London, equally although there are now two rather than one train per hour from Weymouth, the number of stops makes it so much slower.

 

[30907]

17:30 was all stations to Basingstoke, but also uniquely earlier in its journey had a stop at Wimbledon.

The Year was about 1993-94.
These services ran slow line all the way from Surbiton.

The Wimbledon stop on the 1641 off Waterloo (and successors) was for Wimbledon-based rail staff (SW Division Management Offices...)

While this may be good for the likes of Winchester to have multiple fasts per hour to London, equally although there are now two rather than one train per hour from Weymouth, the number of stops makes it so much slower.

I am inclined to agree, but the trouble is, all these intermediate places have grown considerably since 1967. And to be fair Weymouth-London offpeak times are the same as back then despite the 7 (net) extra stops.

 

[Snow1964]

From memory back in the 1980s (when Bournemouth-Weymouth was diesel) there was a separate winter and summer timetable on Sundays.

The winter one only had 1 train per hour and did all stations Weymouth-Brockenhurst then semi-fast to Waterloo. There was a Lymington-Eastleigh stopper (which used headcode 97) covering next batch of stations.

One of the strangest changes was in mid 1980s Brockenhurst had its speed limit raised from 60 (or 70)mph to 90mph to help the fast trains, only for them to start stopping and not needing the higher speeds soon after

 

[adc82140]

The Wimbledon stop on the 1641 off Waterloo (and successors) was for Wimbledon-based rail staff (SW Division Management Offices...)

Never knew that. I presume that the once a day up train from Basingstoke arriving at Wimbledon about 7.30 was for the same reason. Suited me, direct trains in both directions at exactly the time I wanted to travel. I knew of a few people who used those trains so they could get to destinations on the District Line without having to go to Central London. They were always well used services.

 

[33011]

This sort of service often runs for operational convenience. I could think of a number of reasons for extending a Basingstoke stopper all stations right through to Wareham:

Firstly, to provide an additional service at Micheldever - there were, for a period, services which started at Winchester before the Romsey stopper started to provide the service at Shawford and Swaythling - linking the Basingstoke stopper to a Winchester to Wareham service might be worthwhile when there was a flow expected at Micheldever.

Secondly, the Basingstoke stopper may have been 4-car from Waterloo but a longer train was required to go into Waterloo for a peak service. Rather than coupling a spare unit onto the train arriving at Basingstoke, it would make more sense to take a whole 12-car formation out of the sidings and send that to London, something then needs to happen with the 4-car arrival.

Another reason may be for the retention of traincrew knowledge for stopping at all of the stations on the route and rotation of stock around the network.

Iirc the only stop the stopping service did stop after Woking was Southampton Airport I seem to recall only the semi fast calling there. The first stop the fast Weymouth did from Waterloo was Southampton Central I think.

 

[Taunton]

Iirc the only stop the stopping service did stop after Woking was Southampton Airport I seem to recall only the semi fast calling there. The first stop the fast Weymouth did from Waterloo was Southampton Central I think.

This is correct initially, but it did change later. About 1990 I got a mid-afternoon nonstop from Southampton Airport to Waterloo, which was one of the fasts. Expecting a 12-REP/TC, it turned up several minutes late as just a 4-VEP, all seats taken, which proceeded to make an astounding unchecked high speed run and got to Waterloo in under an hour, picking up the lateness. I've written about this run here before. Were the VEPs, on B4 bogies, rated for 100mph?

 

[Colin1501]

This is correct initially, but it did change later. About 1990 I got a mid-afternoon nonstop from Southampton Airport to Waterloo, which was one of the fasts. Expecting a 12-REP/TC, it turned up several minutes late as just a 4-VEP, all seats taken, which proceeded to make an astounding unchecked high speed run and got to Waterloo in under an hour, picking up the lateness. I've written about this run here before. Were the VEPs, on B4 bogies, rated for 100mph?

The 4-VEPs - as with all the Mk 1 based units - were officially limited to 90 mph, but this was frequently exceeded on the long and fast stretches of the South Western main line, especially by REP/TC formations and - later - by BEPs and CIGs with the 'Greyhound' modification. The only units officially cleared for 100 mph running were the 442s.

I had a similar run on an up Weymouth service around 1990. We ran from Weymouth as a single 442 as usual, but after coupling to the second unit at Bournemouth, the train was declared a failure and we were all turfed off. The 442s disappeared off to the depot, and were replaced by 12-VEP. My disappointment at missing out on a bacon roll from the buffet car was short-lived, as what followed was something a bit special. We were well behind time on departure, but the non-stop run from Southampton Airport Parkway to Waterloo was achieved in under the scheduled time for a 442.