1981 Motorail Service Details

[40012Railrover]

Hi All,

I'm trying to put together details of Motorail workings in Summer 1981.

Once service that intrigues me is the Brockenhurst/Dover to Stirling service, which ran twice a week each direction.

The northbound Service ran SSuO, with the southbound one running FSO.

It was surprising that 1M63, the 2035 Brockenhurst - Kensington O (portion onto 1S15, 2035 Dover WD - Stirling) ran via Reading and Mitre Bridge Jn, to arrive at Kenny O form the North.

So - my questions regarding this service are:

What was the motive power for the two portions into Kenny O (I'm guessing 33's - neither train was particularly heavy until it left Kenny O. Did 73's ever work these services?).

Did one or both 33/73s then take the train onwards to Willesden for the change to 25Kv, or was it a pair of Class 25s (as was often the case for other Motorails from Kenny O to via the WCML).

Also, with 2 Motorails to join, can anybody confirm how it was marshalled? Presume both trains would be passenger accommodation at the front, with the cars on the back, so how was this achieved at Kenny O with 1S15. The easiest way is to split the cars off the back (North end) of the Brockenhurst, drop the passenger stock in a through road, then use the loco off the Brockenhurst to stick the Brockenhurst cars onto the back of the Dover. At the same time the Dover loco can get the Brockenhurst coaches and attach them to the front of the Dover. SO - the final makeup of the combined train would be [loco(s)]-Brocky Passenger - Dover Passenger - Dover Cars - Brocky Cars.

Also, if anybody has access to a 1981 Summer WTT for the appropriate areas, it would be really useful to know the arrival/departure times at Kenny O and Willesden for the following services:

1S00 2135 SO Kenny O - Stirling
1S01 1920 M-F Kenny O - Inverness
1S15 2035 SSuO Dover - Stirling
1S22 2055 M-F Kenny O - Stirling
1S55 0855 SO Kenny O - Perth
1S55 1055 M-F Kenny O - Perth
1S55 1200 SuO Kenny O - Perth

1M69 0903 SO Perth - Kenny O
1M69 0955 M-F Perth - Kenny O
1M69 1030 SuO Perth - Kenny O
1M78 2125 TWThO Inverness - Kenny O
1M78 1950 SO Inverness - Kenny O
1M81 2118 SO Perth - Kenny O

1O92 2020 FSO Stirling - Dover (What was the departure time from Kenny O and arrival time in Dover)?

Sorry for the rambling post, and request for a lot of info, but I'd be really grateful if the forum group can oblige!

Cheers

Mike

 

[eastwestdivide]

There's a few mentions of it over on RMWeb, with photos of the stock at Dover:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75679-kensington-olympia-in-n-scale/page-8
(this one includes pictures of the WTT)
and
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79590-jeffps-photos-early-70s-and-80s/?p=1314225
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51971-positioning-of-sleeper-coaches/?p=609472
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/544-southern-region-photos-1980s/?p=75322
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/62367-dover-stirling-motorail/

 

[40012Railrover]

Many thanks, EastWestDivide, for these links. I hadn't come across the thread with the images of the WTT before, so this has helped me a lot.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Taunton]

I'm a bit surprised at the detail of the routes described into Kensington, going round via Reading to come in from the opposite direction to the Dover train, because unless there were some more moves the cars would end up facing in opposite directions from the two separate sections, and some would be getting hauled backwards.

This was a no-no from the earliest Motorail days, when it was realised that car windscreens are reasonably sturdy and proof against flying ballast etc, but their back windows are not so reinforced (certainly in those days), and there was a greater likelihood of arriving at destination with a broken window - which even so was an issue as long as open car carriers were in use.

It would also make getting off at the destination ramp a challenge, as the car rake had to be presented with all cars facing forward for drive-off.

Quite some effort used to be made to overcome this. For example, the Newton-le-Willows to Newton Abbot Motorail, which we once used, loaded at a ramp at Newton facing eastwards, and the loaded cars faced the same way. The logical route south is to depart westwards, and turn left at Earlestown. However, Warrington would send out a pilot (initially a Black 5, then a Class 24) to draw the train backwards along the Liverpool line to beyond Earlestown, when it set forward again round the west curve, and onwards.

 

[40012Railrover]

Thanks, Taunton.

Yes - you raise a very valid point. They sometimes covered the front windscreens of the cars with protective sponge-like covers, which would only stay in place if the car was travelling bonnet first. The cover would have flown up and would have been totally useless if the car was travelling boot first.

So, given that the train did run via Reading, how did they manage to get the train marshalled correctly? I suppose one way would be to run though Kenny O and turn the train on the triangle at Clapham Jn, but why even run the train via Reading, when you could come straight up via Woking (although I think you might need to go Wimbledon - East Putney to be able to gain access to Kenny O from Woking)?

The mystery deepens!

(EDIT: Maybe these photos shed a bit of light on the matter...... I'm not familiar with the layout at Brockenhurst, but it looks like they might be marshalling the train with the cars running boot first! Maybe the train was subject to a speed restriction to help protect the cars whilst they were running backwards?)

http://www.malcolm-smith.150m.com/railways/working/rail/north/motorail/06-r-08.html

Cheers

Mike

 

[30907]

There is a previous discussion here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=83971

Photos there confirm that the loading ramp was "wrong way round" and therefore the cars were loaded boot first, unusual though this might be.

This explains the routing and reversal at Kenny (as does the WTT page on rmweb, because there is no column for the Brockenhurst portion down to Clapham Jn).