• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

1970s / 1980s Station Buffet & Bar - Do you remember 'The Gantry'?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
9 Feb 2025
Messages
9
Location
Derbyshire
I am suitably unashamed that I know [knew] little of such places.
I must have visited 'The Wherry' - Norwich though :smile:.
I went in quite a few as I did a lot of travelling by train in the 1970s, 80s and 90s but its really hard to remember their names.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This blog https://boakandbailey.com/2015/08/the-age-of-rail-ale-1975-1980/ has a pamphlet with a short list of Travellers-Fare buffet-bars that served real ale, most named: alas, it does not include The Gantry.
Yes that article reminded me of 'the Shires' on St Pancras station, and your right sadly it does not mention 'The Gantry' but thanks for posting.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
The Gantry sign in the OP certainly looks like Travellers Fare branding. I'm afraid I can't help with a location for this. At some stage there must have been a list of all of the named T-F outlets. Slightly off topic, one of the cleverest names that BTH came up with was "Potters" for the cocktail bar at the Great Northern Hotel Kings Cross. Sadly I don't think there were any special deals on offer for season ticket holders from Potters Bar, though no doubt many asked! :D
 

Ianigsy

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2015
Messages
1,349
As far as I remember the Travellers Fare at Liverpool Lime Street was on the other side, not far from the current entrance to the Merseyrail lower level.
Yes, and it was called the Bechers Brook.

Fans of Jimmy Stewart will probably say that the Gantry should have been at Elmers End!
 

The exile

Established Member
Joined
31 Mar 2010
Messages
9,481
Location
Somerset
Slightly off topic, one of the cleverest names that BTH came up with was "Potters" for the cocktail bar at the Great Northern Hotel Kings Cross. Sadly I don't think there were any special deals on offer for season ticket holders from Potters Bar, though no doubt many asked! :D
Also remarkably far-seeing, given the name of the now most famous user of Kings Cross!
 

Prime586

Member
Joined
26 May 2023
Messages
300
Location
Knowsley
Is your misspelling of Travellers Fare intentional? :lol:

I have a vague recollection of it being at Liverpool Lime Street, occupying the space that The White Star does on this picture...
https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/article26931163.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/1_JS300008024.jpg


As far as I remember the Travellers Fare at Liverpool Lime Street was on the other side, not far from the current entrance to the Merseyrail lower level.
The White Star, Casey Jones Burgers and Travellers Fare by the Merseyrail entrance (which was later converted to an Upper Crust sandwich shop) all date from the 1984 remodeling of the station concourse. Prior to the rebuild, the original Travellers Fare buffet, grill room and bar was in the ground floor of the North Western Hotel, along with the shops and ticket office. The rebuild was to allow BR to vacate the North Western Hotel building completely , resiting all the facilities out on the concourse which involved shortening platforms 1-6. There are some frustratingly small pictures of the interior of the old buffet here.
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
Great picture! Despite the low light levels and ensuing quality issues it brings back the era well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


@Prime586 Those small pics are very interesting, of the buffet / restaurant c1950s - thanks for sourcing. And I note they are copyright to Railtrack (suggesting Network Rail etc has an image library of historic images which I would have thought would have been passed on to the NRM etc)
 

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
Also remarkably far-seeing, given the name of the now most famous user of Kings Cross!
Wizard marketing perhaps? :D

There is a famous Harry's Bar, but inconveniently it is in Venice. Shame there isn't a straightforward connection from St Pancras!
 

Djgr

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2018
Messages
3,440
The White Star, Casey Jones Burgers and Travellers Fare by the Merseyrail entrance (which was later converted to an Upper Crust sandwich shop) all date from the 1984 remodeling of the station concourse. Prior to the rebuild, the original Travellers Fare buffet, grill room and bar was in the ground floor of the North Western Hotel, along with the shops and ticket office. The rebuild was to allow BR to vacate the North Western Hotel building completely , resiting all the facilities out on the concourse which involved shortening platforms 1-6. There are some frustratingly small pictures of the interior of the old buffet here.
As far as I am aware, the North Western Hotel became offices and then abandoned and then student halls of residence and now a hotel again!
 

Prime586

Member
Joined
26 May 2023
Messages
300
Location
Knowsley
As far as I am aware, the North Western Hotel became offices and then abandoned and then student halls of residence and now a hotel again!
Yes, the hotel closed in the 1933 and was converted into offices as Lime Street Chambers (though the ground floor remained in use by the station). The use as offices did not last very long (presumably due to the construction of Rail House on Lord Nelson St. in the late 1960s) and apart from the ground floor it was basically abandoned. Once the station no longer required the ground floor after the 1984 concourse remodelling, it could then be sold off. It's mentioned in a November 1983 Hansard entry that there were negotiations for the 'largely disused building' to be redeveloped by Merseypride Developments (who at the time had bought the redundant Triumph car factory in Speke to convert to an 'enterprise park') after the station remodelling was complete, which ultimately fell through.

It took until 1994 before they could find someone to take it on - Liverpool John Moores University, who paid £6m for it and converted it into the North Western Hall hall of residence, which opened in 1996. At that point the ground floor came back into use, with the Head Of Steam opening in the former grill room/bar. The bar was sold to Wetherspoons in December 2014 and after a 2 year refurbishment it reopened as the North Western.

The halls of residence closed in 2018 when LJMU sold the building to the Marcus Worthington Group for conversion back into a hotel at a cost of £30m (with £20m of that being a loan from the council pension fund). Radisson signed on as the tenant/operator and it was due to open in 2020, but the construction division of Worthington Group went bankrupt in 2019 and work stopped. The project was then sold to Fairfield Real Estate Finance, and new contractors were appointed to complete the work in 2021. The hotel then opened in December 2022.
 
Last edited:

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
Come to think of it given many even modest sized stations had travellers fare buffets if the all had different names their would have been a lot of different signage. Did they all have different names?

For example I believe The Runaway cafe on Lewes platform two, independently owned now and not part of a national chain I think, was a TF buffet in the 70s early 80s. Tho unsure what name it had then if any.
 

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
18,337
Location
Glasgow
Come to think of it given many even modest sized stations had travellers fare buffets if the all had different names their would have been a lot of different signage. Did they all have different names?

For example I believe The Runaway cafe on Lewes platform two, independently owned now and not part of a national chain I think, was a TF buffet in the 70s early 80s. Tho unsure what name it had then if any.
Some don't appear to have had names, at least when you look at period photos they are just labelled as a 'buffet' or 'buffet-bar' with period yellow on red TF signage but no apparent name.

Others seem to have changed names.

Dundee originally had 'The Clipper Bar' but at some point during the 1980s, it was renamed 'The Tay Bar'. Signage on the platform still refers to the latter despite it having closed some years ago.
 

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
The corporate signage in the OP, along with styling the outlets generally as buffets, bars etc, some with individual names (such as The Gantry) was all part of a corporate strategy finalised in 1978 to renergise BTH and refresh the image of railway catering. There were even plans for BTH to take over licensed premises on railway land which had been leased to third parties as their leases expired. In the steam era, station catering establishments were called "refreshment rooms" - shades of "Brief Encounter"!
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
Some don't appear to have had names, at least when you look at period photos they are just labelled as a 'buffet' or 'buffet-bar' with period yellow on red TF signage but no apparent name.

Others seem to have changed names.
Thanks - that's helpful info to know, ie that they were not all named individually.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The corporate signage in the OP, along with styling the outlets generally as buffets, bars etc, some with individual names (such as The Gantry) was all part of a corporate strategy finalised in 1978 to renergise BTH and refresh the image of railway catering. There were even plans for BTH to take over licensed premises on railway land which had been leased to third parties as their leases expired. In the steam era, station catering establishments were called "refreshment rooms" - shades of "Brief Encounter"!
Thanks - interesting gen.

I wondered if that co-incided with / was as a result of Pru Leith joining the BRB, but looking at her Wikipedia entry, that states she was on the Board from 1980 to 1985 so the re-energising of BTH and TF most have been a policy decision already well underway.
 

Prime586

Member
Joined
26 May 2023
Messages
300
Location
Knowsley
The corporate signage in the OP, along with styling the outlets generally as buffets, bars etc, some with individual names (such as The Gantry) was all part of a corporate strategy finalised in 1978 to renergise BTH and refresh the image of railway catering.
The BR Corporate Identity Manual shows the corporate identity drawings for Travellers Fare being issued in January 1968. It's covered in Sheets 3/601, 3/602, 3/603. 3/604 and 3/605.
Where was the Foregate Restaurant featured in sheet 3/604?
 

GatwickDepress

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2013
Messages
2,588
Location
Leeds
The one at Hastings was called Castle Bar. Sensible name considering its one of the first things you see once you step outside the station and not something as broad as 'Gantry'.

Honestly, I'm clutching at straws trying to think of possible origins for that sign. Preston, maybe? It formerly had some impressive signal gantries and was electrified relatively recently? Maybe some pride over finally getting wired?

When I was looking up reference images for a scrapped model railway project, I was surprised there hadn't been a comprehensive book written about Travellers Fare and all the very 80s names it had for things: Casey Jones, Quicksnack, Swizza Pizza, etc.

They must have had name changes. That leaflet gives the Brighton one as The Coastway, but I’m pretty sure by mid 80s it was called The Prince Regent. I’m not 100% sure even though I worked in it!
I'm pretty sure the one at Crewe was initially known as The Lodge, so perhaps some were changed over the years.
 

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
Thanks - that's helpful info to know, ie that they were not all named individually.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Thanks - interesting gen.

I wondered if that co-incided with / was as a result of Pru Leith joining the BRB, but looking at her Wikipedia entry, that states she was on the Board from 1980 to 1985 so the re-energising of BTH and TF most have been a policy decision already well underway.
According to Peter Land, Pru Leith joined the BTH board in 1978. Peter Land was Group Managing Director of BTH at the time. There's lots more about what happened next in his book "Sauce Supreme - the Annihilation of British Transport Hotels".
 

Prime586

Member
Joined
26 May 2023
Messages
300
Location
Knowsley
Worcester? Or is that too straightforward? :lol:
I don't know - looking at it, it hardly looks big enough to have had a restaurant. It's not the only old Roman-era city to have an area known as Foregate - being from Liverpool, my first thought was it may have been Chester General.
 

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
I don't know - looking at it, it hardly looks big enough to have had a restaurant. It's not the only old Roman-era city to have an area known as Foregate - being from Liverpool, my first thought was it may have been Chester General.
As the drawing is in the corporate identity manual, is it possible that "Foregate" is merely an imagined name to indicate how the signage should look and doesn't apply to any physical location?
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
The BR Corporate Identity Manual shows the corporate identity drawings for Travellers Fare being issued in January 1968. It's covered in Sheets 3/601, 3/602, 3/603. 3/604 and 3/605.
Where was the Foregate Restaurant featured in sheet 3/604?
Great Links
I wonder if Foregate Restaurant was simply a notional name for the purposes of the design sheet?

IIRC the TF Off Licence branches were limited in number, but there was certainly one at London Victoria - on the Brighton side IIRC, as you walked towards the street not far from the point where the South Eastern side joined. You got a staff discount in there (possibly by presenting your priv card but I don't recall exactly)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The one at Hastings was called Castle Bar. Sensible name considering its one of the first things you see once you step outside the station and not something as broad as 'Gantry'.

Honestly, I'm clutching at straws trying to think of possible origins for that sign. Preston, maybe? It formerly had some impressive signal gantries and was electrified relatively recently? Maybe some pride over finally getting wired?

When I was looking up reference images for a scrapped model railway project, I was surprised there hadn't been a comprehensive book written about Travellers Fare and all the very 80s names it had for things: Casey Jones, Quicksnack, Swizza Pizza, etc.


I'm pretty sure the one at Crewe was initially known as The Lodge, so perhaps some were changed over the years.
Thanks - can you recall if the Eastbourne one was named?

I did a shift there during the winter of 1986/87 when heavy snow prevented me getting to my usual place and they were short staffed as snow prevented regular staff getting to that one. Jan 1987 I would think. So not only in heavy winter weather did BR seek to keep some trains running, they endeavoured to keep the buffets open too!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

According to Peter Land, Pru Leith joined the BTH board in 1978. Peter Land was Group Managing Director of BTH at the time. There's lots more about what happened next in his book "Sauce Supreme - the Annihilation of British Transport Hotels".
Thanks I have that book, I need to read it again. That date makes more sense, but it does mean her own wikipedia page is not accurate if so...(which is quite possible, given I would assume Peter Land endeavoured to get his book factually accurate, one might hope.
 

Ianigsy

Established Member
Joined
12 May 2015
Messages
1,349
Dundee originally had 'The Clipper Bar' but at some point during the 1980s, it was renamed 'The Tay Bar'. Signage on the platform still refers to the latter despite it having closed some years ago.
The Tay Bar would be equally appropriate in Belfast….
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
I don't think so - there other examples shown in the manual of signs with names of real locations, such as Sheets 1/15, 3/01/02, 3/04/01, 3/18 and 3/18/01.
Hmmm - you make a good point

An old Regional Timetable (1960s era) would indicate if Worcester Foregate Street had a restaurant because those timetables list out all the hotels, station buffets and restaurants and what service level they offered (including if 24 hour service etc) - though they don't list names but I think we are agreeing they probably didn't have names individually in those days - but it would verify the location of places that had a restaurant. Usually at the start of the timetable book. I'll try to look at one later.

Occurs to me to wonder - would a BTH Hotel have had a restaurant with a name that was different to the hotel name?
 

Rescars

Established Member
Joined
25 May 2021
Messages
2,593
Location
Surrey
Occurs to me to wonder - would a BTH Hotel have had a restaurant with a name that was different to the hotel name?
Absolutely! The Orchard at the Great Western Royal, the Zodiac coffee shop at the Adelphi, Betjeman's carvery at the Charing Cross, L'Entrecote at the Great Eastern to name a few. All with very different styles of service, but most certainly none of them branded with anything that looked like or even hinted at any connection with Travellers Fare.
 

WesternLancer

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
15,395
Absolutely! The Orchard at the Great Western Royal, the Zodiac coffee shop at the Adelphi, Betjeman's carvery at the Charing Cross, L'Entrecote at the Great Eastern to name a few. All with very different styles of service, but most certainly none of them branded with anything that looked like or even hinted at any connection with Travellers Fare.
Thanks - interesting to read
 

eastwestdivide

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2009
Messages
3,429
Location
S Yorks, usually
Honestly, I'm clutching at straws trying to think of possible origins for that sign. Preston, maybe? It formerly had some impressive signal gantries and was electrified relatively recently? Maybe some pride over finally getting wired?
Not even necessarily a railway gantry. Could be a local feature, and not necessarily close to the railway.
There's currently "The Gantry" in Stratford (London), describing itself as an urban resort and hotel, but they don't say why they chose that name!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top