1871 Census

[Andy873]

Thomas Stone’s entry in the probate record in 1882 is as follows:

Thanks for that, it seems Thomas (senior) was worth some money, not bad considering he started out life as a humble stone mason.

(Of course @Andy873 you may already have realised all this, if so my apologies…)

No apologies needed, your help and advice is most definitely appreciated.

It wasn't that far in the past, in relation to the time you are researching, that the railway building bonanza (1840's) and the Irish potato famine sort of coincided to a degree, so there was likely no shortage of willing labour during those years. My own Scots ancestors left Glasgow for London during those years, in my instant it was for specific work in a certain trade, but for many (Glaswegians) in general, the city was becoming inundated with Immigrants from Ireland during those years, and many, Glaswegians and others, also headed further afield across the Pond, including some of mine. So I come from an understanding of the wider transitional moves taking place in those years.

You indeed have a better understanding of the situation regarding work in Victorian times than I do. Many came to Britain for work and many here simply went where the work was. Lots of people moving around became known as tramps, as they described themselves as "on the tramp", meaning they are travelling around looking for work.

Going back to the 1881, I'm now in two minds about the firm name, it could be J&R Stone after all...

Here was my reasoning:

The sons Thomas and Robert were employed by their father Thomas (senior) for the construction of the loop line.
I assumed both of them then moved on to the Wigan Junction railway construction.
Next up, when their father dies this is where the ILS mention T&R Stone taking over.

All of the above sounds logical until you look at the written entry for Robert from 1881. John Stone who was not on my radar seems to have taken over the colliery business side of things a good few years before and Robert now titles himself (1881) as Railway Contractor. It could be that the firm of J (for John) and R (for Robert) was formed earlier than 1881, and together they run their father's businesses?

A colliery(s) and railway construction would validate 350 employees?

Thomas (junior) is simply listed as Farmer's son in the 1881 census, no mention of any railway connection at all.

Try as I might, I can't find any mention of a partnership between either John and Robert, or Thomas (junior) and Robert? Unless someone can find anything I will have to make a note of - it was T&R or J&R Stone from 1881.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Forgive me if I'm preaching to the converted, but do you have access to any surviving Trade Directories, even hard copy (local record office) or on line via FMP/Ancestry/The Genealogist? I can't help personally, as none of my people came from the area you are researching, so I've not had the need to access any from there about.

 

[stuving]

I thought I'd found newspaper references to only T & R Stone, but in fact it's always T and R Stone. And the only event I found was the opening of the Wigan Junction Railway, 16th October 1879. One of the reports, in the Widnes Examiner, 18 October 1879 (p6c6), is free to read in the BNA. It includes:

 

[Andy873]

I thought I'd found newspaper references to only T & R Stone, but in fact it's always T and R Stone. And the only event I found was the opening of the Wigan Junction Railway, 16th October 1879. One of the reports, in the Widnes Examiner, 18 October 1879 (p6c6), is free to read in the BNA.

That's a great find, thanks.

I too can only find T & R, I've taken a dew days to think about this and here are my thoughts:

Back in early 1870, Thomas (senior) wins the loop line contract under the name Thomas Stone & Sons. Robert is listed a year later as the Civil Engineer for the build.

In September 1876, Thomas (senior) puts in his next railway tender (the Wigan Junction one) and with the loop line construction nearly over, and sometime before the first section of the WJR opens, Robert elevates himself to that of a railway contractor. This must be where we get the T & R from, and in this case the T stands for Thomas (senior)?

We have to understand that by 1879, Thomas (senior) is around 62 years old, and I'm sure he had his sons running the businesses, John take care of the coal mining side, Robert, the contracting side, and Thomas (junior) the 350 acre farm plus whatever else.

John Stone it seems was a director and major share holder of the new WJR. Not only does he make money from selling coal, but will also indirectly from dividends partly generated by its transportation along the WJR.

An interesting family, in my books at least.

 

[DerekC]

Worth a few bob, our Mr Stone. £68,400 in 1882 is equivalent to about £10.5M today.